I disapprove of the father's actions and feel they are awful. However, what is a random mall customer "saying something" to him going to do? I would consider reporting it to a mall guard, or calling the police, but no, I am not just going to walk up to him and start giving him a piece of my mind.

Not going to argue with you anymore, OP. You clearly like feel like shit that you didn't do anything. That's your problem, not mine.

Anonymous wrote:8:48 here. Not going to quote long paragraphs and take up more room but I just want to say, OP, I think you're taking out your anger and frustration that you didn't say anything on me. You're acting like I have said "I personally spank and think it's great" when I've said the opposite this entire thread. If you feel bad you didn't say anything, that's on you, but don't misplace your anger on someone who not only did nothing to you, but doesn't even spank! You're lecturing me like I've said I condone whipping children with belts. As you originally described the incident, no, I would not have intervened, even if I didn't like what I had seen. That doesn't make me a person who likes abusers or makes excuses for them, it makes me a person who is wary to intervene unless I know for sure I just saw something illegal.

You're right - I'm angry that you and others are apologists for using violence on children. I will absolutely not apologize for the distress I feel about attitudes like yours, but there's no need for you to go on and on about you - random person on the internet - knowing full well what exactly went on yesterday. If you feel it's ok to justify hitting children, just say it, and don't pretend like you don't support it while simultaneously saying you can understand why it's justified. Also of course, not providing any concrete support of why you think using violence on children is effective.

8:48 here. Not going to quote long paragraphs and take up more room but I just want to say, OP, I think you're taking out your anger and frustration that you didn't say anything on me. You're acting like I have said "I personally spank and think it's great" when I've said the opposite this entire thread. If you feel bad you didn't say anything, that's on you, but don't misplace your anger on someone who not only did nothing to you, but doesn't even spank! You're lecturing me like I've said I condone whipping children with belts. As you originally described the incident, no, I would not have intervened, even if I didn't like what I had seen. That doesn't make me a person who likes abusers or makes excuses for them, it makes me a person who is wary to intervene unless I know for sure I just saw something illegal.

Anonymous wrote:How do you know that hitting accomplishes nothing? Dont knock it til you try it. When my son is acting up I look him dead in the face and ask do you want a spanking? He then looks at me and shakes his head and says "nononono" and stops the behavior that he was doing.Most of the time I dont have to spank him because he stops the behavior after I threaten him with a spanking.

Alll of you people against spanking have probably never tried it and dont know how effective it can be.

So go ahead and continue to reason with your little snowflake, if you will. But dont be surprised when they turn into nightmares as they get older.

So it's not the spanking that stops the behavior, but your consistency in carrying out a consequence after a warning. The same could be said for a parent successful at saying "Do you want a time out?" (if age appropriate) or "If you do that again, you will lose TV for the rest of the day." The child is responding to your threat/promise to carry out the consequence. You just said most of the time, you don't even have to give the spanking, because he knows you are consistent.

I have never spanked my children, and I was never spanked as a child. My parents didn't coddle me or engage in long-winded explanations that flew over my head. They laid out rules and expectations, and consequences that were consistently enforced. Those consequences do not have to include corporal punishment in order to be effective. As parents in our home, we do the same. My children are in high school now, and we've never had any "nightmare" behavior.

As far the OP--it's a tough call, but I would probably give the parent a glare and at least let him know another parent disapproves. A slap in the face/shoulder/wherever is not very nice or successful parenting, but I don't agree that it's abuse.

Anonymous wrote:How do you know that hitting accomplishes nothing? Dont knock it til you try it. When my son is acting up I look him dead in the face and ask do you want a spanking? He then looks at me and shakes his head and says "nononono" and stops the behavior that he was doing.Most of the time I dont have to spank him because he stops the behavior after I threaten him with a spanking.

Alll of you people against spanking have probably never tried it and dont know how effective it can be.

So go ahead and continue to reason with your little snowflake, if you will. But dont be surprised when they turn into nightmares as they get older.

You must feel big and powerful knowing your son is petrified of you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanking is a swat on the butt. A smack across the face is NOT a spanking. Yes you're allowed to spank your kid if you're too lazy to parent unfortunately, but you are not allowed to physically punish your child in whatever way you please. He has triplets and probably had a long day?? Seriously? Is it okay for me to smack my boss when I've had a long day, or my husband? Why is it okay to do to a child?

OP did not see that he had smacked her on the face. She said she heard a smack and it MIGHT have been the face, or shoulder. And if it could have been the shoulder, it could have been the arm. I know I'm damn sure not going to walk up to a father of 3 and accuse him of abuse if I'm not even 100% sure where he smacked the kid.

When I see abuse, I KNOW it is abuse. There's no denying it. OP was clearly unsure of what she saw because she can't definitively say where the child was smacked, she did NOT confront, and then she came here to question everything that happened. I'm sorry, you just can't get police or CPS involved unless you are firm in what you have seen or witnessed and you know it is abuse. If cops and CPS are getting dragged in, it's bad for the parents AND the kids, and unless you are positive that you have seen the parent abusing their child (and I mean actually ABUSING, not just parenting in a way you don't agree with, e.g. spanking), you are better off not going down that path. I'm not saying "MYOB all the time forever so kids can keep getting abused." But definitely MYOB if you're not even sure you saw abuse. Getting those authorities involved has real consequences for everyone and it's not something I take lightly.

pp again - you've repeatedly ignored questions from several people to clarify your distinctions of when hitting your child is and is not abuse. Please stop deflecting and answer.

I do not think smacking a child is abuse when it is used to get a child to stop doing something dangerous either to himself or others. For instance, if a kid at the playground keeps hitting other children with sticks despite his mother telling him not to, I would not consider it abuse for the mother to pull him aside and spank him to get him to stop. Or if a child refuses to stand on the sidewalk with a parent and keeps trying to dart into traffic, I do not think it's abuse for that parent to spank the child to get them to understand the situation is serious. I do not hit my child. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a spanking if it was one of these situations, but she's well behaved and I don't find spanking her necessary. Maybe it's because I raised her using other parenting techniques; maybe I just got lucky and she doesn't act out due to her own nature. But I fully understand that some kids only respond to spanking vs. reasoning, and some parents use it as a disciplinary tool.

As I said above, I know abuse when I see it. I can't sit here and lay out for you a million scenarios that I think are okay. I just know when something I see is NOT okay. If OP is right and everyone in her radius saw and heard this and "recoiled in horror" (which she only thought to include 6 pages in rather than in her OP) then I do have to wonder why nobody stepped in or alerted anyone. I absolutely would do that if I KNEW I had seen abuse. But the fact that nobody did means either everyone at the mall was too scared to intervene in an abusive situation, or was not sure if they had in fact witnessed abuse.

What lesson do you think it's teaching the child, to hit them, for hitting another child? Do you seriously think the right message will be sent across? This is not discipline or parenting - this is straight up anger - which is precisely what I witnessed. I can kind of sort of very slightly understand a very light tap to ignite the child's impulses of flinching, and get them to re-focus their attention if they're about to dart into traffic - similar to a child reaching for a hot stove and you have fractions of seconds to intervene. But that's not about "discipline" and more to get the child to use their flinching impulses to stop and move away.

You say that you "understand that some kids only respond to spanking" - can you provide a citation for this? A study that supports this argument that you're making?

As for nobody intervening, I can tell you it was more about shock and surprise - others and I look at each other, mouths agape, in shock and sadness. What do you do? I don't know that anyone else did not stop the abusive dad - I was about to walk into a store when the incident happened, and debated with myself just inside the threshold about what to do. I saw the incident - I did not stick around to see if others said anything. After sleeping on it, I honestly wish I had. The only reason to hit a child in this situation is because you're angry - and that is awful parenting. Frankly, it will make it worse - the child learns that violence and hitting is an acceptable response to being frustrated and angry, and I guarantee you the situation will repeat many more times. Again, it has nothing to do with parenting or discipline - and everything to do with anger.

How do you know that hitting accomplishes nothing? Dont knock it til you try it. When my son is acting up I look him dead in the face and ask do you want a spanking? He then looks at me and shakes his head and says "nononono" and stops the behavior that he was doing.Most of the time I dont have to spank him because he stops the behavior after I threaten him with a spanking.

Alll of you people against spanking have probably never tried it and dont know how effective it can be.

So go ahead and continue to reason with your little snowflake, if you will. But dont be surprised when they turn into nightmares as they get older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanking is a swat on the butt. A smack across the face is NOT a spanking. Yes you're allowed to spank your kid if you're too lazy to parent unfortunately, but you are not allowed to physically punish your child in whatever way you please. He has triplets and probably had a long day?? Seriously? Is it okay for me to smack my boss when I've had a long day, or my husband? Why is it okay to do to a child?

OP did not see that he had smacked her on the face. She said she heard a smack and it MIGHT have been the face, or shoulder. And if it could have been the shoulder, it could have been the arm. I know I'm damn sure not going to walk up to a father of 3 and accuse him of abuse if I'm not even 100% sure where he smacked the kid.

When I see abuse, I KNOW it is abuse. There's no denying it. OP was clearly unsure of what she saw because she can't definitively say where the child was smacked, she did NOT confront, and then she came here to question everything that happened. I'm sorry, you just can't get police or CPS involved unless you are firm in what you have seen or witnessed and you know it is abuse. If cops and CPS are getting dragged in, it's bad for the parents AND the kids, and unless you are positive that you have seen the parent abusing their child (and I mean actually ABUSING, not just parenting in a way you don't agree with, e.g. spanking), you are better off not going down that path. I'm not saying "MYOB all the time forever so kids can keep getting abused." But definitely MYOB if you're not even sure you saw abuse. Getting those authorities involved has real consequences for everyone and it's not something I take lightly.

pp again - you've repeatedly ignored questions from several people to clarify your distinctions of when hitting your child is and is not abuse. Please stop deflecting and answer.

I do not think smacking a child is abuse when it is used to get a child to stop doing something dangerous either to himself or others. For instance, if a kid at the playground keeps hitting other children with sticks despite his mother telling him not to, I would not consider it abuse for the mother to pull him aside and spank him to get him to stop. Or if a child refuses to stand on the sidewalk with a parent and keeps trying to dart into traffic, I do not think it's abuse for that parent to spank the child to get them to understand the situation is serious. I do not hit my child. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a spanking if it was one of these situations, but she's well behaved and I don't find spanking her necessary. Maybe it's because I raised her using other parenting techniques; maybe I just got lucky and she doesn't act out due to her own nature. But I fully understand that some kids only respond to spanking vs. reasoning, and some parents use it as a disciplinary tool.

As I said above, I know abuse when I see it. I can't sit here and lay out for you a million scenarios that I think are okay. I just know when something I see is NOT okay. If OP is right and everyone in her radius saw and heard this and "recoiled in horror" (which she only thought to include 6 pages in rather than in her OP) then I do have to wonder why nobody stepped in or alerted anyone. I absolutely would do that if I KNEW I had seen abuse. But the fact that nobody did means either everyone at the mall was too scared to intervene in an abusive situation, or was not sure if they had in fact witnessed abuse.

Say something if you want but the fact is it is not illegal to hit/ smack/ spank your kid. Cops and CPS aren't going to do anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanking is a swat on the butt. A smack across the face is NOT a spanking. Yes you're allowed to spank your kid if you're too lazy to parent unfortunately, but you are not allowed to physically punish your child in whatever way you please. He has triplets and probably had a long day?? Seriously? Is it okay for me to smack my boss when I've had a long day, or my husband? Why is it okay to do to a child?

OP did not see that he had smacked her on the face. She said she heard a smack and it MIGHT have been the face, or shoulder. And if it could have been the shoulder, it could have been the arm. I know I'm damn sure not going to walk up to a father of 3 and accuse him of abuse if I'm not even 100% sure where he smacked the kid.

When I see abuse, I KNOW it is abuse. There's no denying it. OP was clearly unsure of what she saw because she can't definitively say where the child was smacked, she did NOT confront, and then she came here to question everything that happened. I'm sorry, you just can't get police or CPS involved unless you are firm in what you have seen or witnessed and you know it is abuse. If cops and CPS are getting dragged in, it's bad for the parents AND the kids, and unless you are positive that you have seen the parent abusing their child (and I mean actually ABUSING, not just parenting in a way you don't agree with, e.g. spanking), you are better off not going down that path. I'm not saying "MYOB all the time forever so kids can keep getting abused." But definitely MYOB if you're not even sure you saw abuse. Getting those authorities involved has real consequences for everyone and it's not something I take lightly.

pp again - you've repeatedly ignored questions from several people to clarify your distinctions of when hitting your child is and is not abuse. Please stop deflecting and answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanking is a swat on the butt. A smack across the face is NOT a spanking. Yes you're allowed to spank your kid if you're too lazy to parent unfortunately, but you are not allowed to physically punish your child in whatever way you please. He has triplets and probably had a long day?? Seriously? Is it okay for me to smack my boss when I've had a long day, or my husband? Why is it okay to do to a child?

OP did not see that he had smacked her on the face. She said she heard a smack and it MIGHT have been the face, or shoulder. And if it could have been the shoulder, it could have been the arm. I know I'm damn sure not going to walk up to a father of 3 and accuse him of abuse if I'm not even 100% sure where he smacked the kid.

When I see abuse, I KNOW it is abuse. There's no denying it. OP was clearly unsure of what she saw because she can't definitively say where the child was smacked, she did NOT confront, and then she came here to question everything that happened. I'm sorry, you just can't get police or CPS involved unless you are firm in what you have seen or witnessed and you know it is abuse. If cops and CPS are getting dragged in, it's bad for the parents AND the kids, and unless you are positive that you have seen the parent abusing their child (and I mean actually ABUSING, not just parenting in a way you don't agree with, e.g. spanking), you are better off not going down that path. I'm not saying "MYOB all the time forever so kids can keep getting abused." But definitely MYOB if you're not even sure you saw abuse. Getting those authorities involved has real consequences for everyone and it's not something I take lightly.

OP here - it WAS the face or shoulder, and definitely the upper part of the body. Have you ever tried to capture the flailing hand of a toddler? Let alone the hand of a toddler in the middle of a triple-stroller? It's not that easy, and slapping ANYONE'S hand does not produce as loud of a sound as hitting your shoe on the ground. Others also saw it, and we all recoiled in horror.

As has been told to you 20 times, hitting a child, especially hitting a child because they were hitting their sibling, is in no way "parenting" - it accomplishes nothing. It teaches them nothing.

But please go on making excuses for this child abuser of a dad. Most likely, birds of a feather...

Anonymous wrote:Spanking is a swat on the butt. A smack across the face is NOT a spanking. Yes you're allowed to spank your kid if you're too lazy to parent unfortunately, but you are not allowed to physically punish your child in whatever way you please. He has triplets and probably had a long day?? Seriously? Is it okay for me to smack my boss when I've had a long day, or my husband? Why is it okay to do to a child?

OP did not see that he had smacked her on the face. She said she heard a smack and it MIGHT have been the face, or shoulder. And if it could have been the shoulder, it could have been the arm. I know I'm damn sure not going to walk up to a father of 3 and accuse him of abuse if I'm not even 100% sure where he smacked the kid.

When I see abuse, I KNOW it is abuse. There's no denying it. OP was clearly unsure of what she saw because she can't definitively say where the child was smacked, she did NOT confront, and then she came here to question everything that happened. I'm sorry, you just can't get police or CPS involved unless you are firm in what you have seen or witnessed and you know it is abuse. If cops and CPS are getting dragged in, it's bad for the parents AND the kids, and unless you are positive that you have seen the parent abusing their child (and I mean actually ABUSING, not just parenting in a way you don't agree with, e.g. spanking), you are better off not going down that path. I'm not saying "MYOB all the time forever so kids can keep getting abused." But definitely MYOB if you're not even sure you saw abuse. Getting those authorities involved has real consequences for everyone and it's not something I take lightly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this... If one of you sanctimonious parents EVER comes up to me if I smack my kid and even think about confronting me or, God forbid, intervening, I would take pleasure in giving you a piece of my mind using choice words [b]and perhaps a physical threat.[/b]Beat it with your holier-than-thou attitude toward disciplining children. There is no one size fits all type of discipline out there. The responsive classroom method at our school works on about 1/4 of the kids in any given class. Most of them need a smack in the back of the head every now and then; not time to think about actions and consequences.

Well, this one pretty much sums up the fact that parents who hit their kids, do it for all the wrong reasons. Its not about discipline or what is best for the child. Its about "let me show you how big and tough I am". You are actually laying in wait of someone questioning you so you can belittle them and threaten them. This is just sad and pathetic.

+infinity

Infinity +1. Then expect a call to the cops on my part. Hope it was worth it. You're a foul human.

Anonymous wrote:MYOB. Period.

This attitude is why kids are abused and it goes on for years and then something catastrophic happens (e.g., kids die from abuse) and everyone wonders how come no one stepped in to help earlier on.