Anonymous wrote:For a Christian to celebrate a seder isn't an appropriation since Jesus was a Jew and took part in this ritual.

Jesus didn't have a Bar Mitzvah, so for a Christian to take part in this would be an appropriation.

Anonymous wrote:For a Christian to celebrate a seder isn't an appropriation since Jesus was a Jew and took part in this ritual.

Jesus didn't have a Bar Mitzvah, so for a Christian to take part in this would be an appropriation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



Well, you win for being dense. It's been explained many times that the "seder" is symbolic and is meant to re-enact the last supper. The meaning of Passover doesn't really play into it. But that doesn't really play into your need to feel constant offense so I guess you can continue to ignore that fact.

But why call it a seder, then? That's what I don't understand. It's not a seder. It's a ritual meal or a re-enactment of the Last Supper. I wouldn't call my Passover seder an Easter meal even if it were held on Easter. The word "seder" has a very specific meaning. Just like mass, or Communion. You can't take things that might resemble mass or Communion and call them by that name when they're not. That is what I and some of the other Jewish posters on this thread object to -- not the meal or celebration itself, but the appropriation of a name, an idea, a tradition, that is very much alive and critical to the celebration of one of the most important Jewish holidays. I know Christians who hold these so-called seders probably don't have any such intention, but that is what it feels like to those who celebrate the original. Don't call it a seder, and I'll be happy.

Anonymous wrote:



Well, you win for being dense. It's been explained many times that the "seder" is symbolic and is meant to re-enact the last supper. The meaning of Passover doesn't really play into it. But that doesn't really play into your need to feel constant offense so I guess you can continue to ignore that fact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Just stop. Now you are all being assholes. Rude assholes.

I see nothing rude in what pp asked. I'm an agnostic. I've been to seders hosted by jewish friends, and seders hosted by jewish groups for people of other faiths. I wouldn't playact a non-jewish seder for the same reason I wouldn't dress my daughter in a pretty communion dress and feed her fake communion hosts--I have respect for the traditions that people of faith hold sacred.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

+1

Jewish NP here.

No problem with non-Jews at seders, but it's kind of odd for Christians to host their own for other Christians. The first seems like a great chance at cross-cultural and religious harmony, the second does seem like they are emphasizing Jesus at a holiday that really has nothing to do with him.

If you wanted to celebrate Passover as it would have been before the destruction of the 2nd temple, there would be no haggadah etc. Maybe eat a lamb you killed that day? That would be an interesting seder!

I mean, who runs these Christian seders? Do you sing the songs in Hebrew?

Do you feel uncomfortable with saying "we" and "us" when referring to Jews or is it all playacting, so it doesn't really matter? Like when you say "we were slaves . . ."

Sorry, but I'm with OP on this one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Just stop. Now you are all being assholes. Rude assholes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic here, I went to my first Passover Seder last night at our neighbor's house, what a great experience. Certainly gives me an appreciation for better understanding and respecting the building blocks for Christianity.

Ugh. Glad I didnt invite you to my house.

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.