Anonymous wrote:Dad here - I will teach my son that, even a yes from an obviously intoxicated girl should be treated as a no. If it was actually a yes, it will be a yes again later when she is sober. Worst case scenario, you sleep with her later. Best case scenario, no accuses you of rape.

There is a bib difference between tipsy and drunk, and it is easy to tell the difference.

Mom here. I wish a dad in our community had taught this son this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

Penetration without consent is rape. Finger, penis, knife, doesn't matter.

Wrong. In Maryland for rape to occur there has to be penetration by a penis.

Oh, and I think what you wanted to say was "in Maryland there has to be penetration by a penis to meet the legal definition of rape". In Maryland, if you penetrate without consent, you're still a rapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

Penetration without consent is rape. Finger, penis, knife, doesn't matter.

Wrong. In Maryland for rape to occur there has to be penetration by a penis.

In Maryland there are two relevant statutes: Rape and Sexual Offense. The penalties are pretty much the same. You can get up to life imprisonment. So we're talking a matter of semantics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

Penetration without consent is rape. Finger, penis, knife, doesn't matter.

Wrong. In Maryland for rape to occur there has to be penetration by a penis.

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

I'm curious: do you understand the concept of "consent"?

Dad here - I will teach my son that, even a yes from an obviously intoxicated girl should be treated as a no. If it was actually a yes, it will be a yes again later when she is sober. Worst case scenario, you sleep with her later. Best case scenario, no accuses you of rape.

There is a bib difference between tipsy and drunk, and it is easy to tell the difference.

I am so glad that these boys are facing the consequences for their actions.

They displayed callousness and utter disregard for this girl and I hope through counseling they will learn that this is not how you treat other human beings.

A big part of rape has to do with taboo and how you'll be perceived after the fact. Let's face it. This poor girl not only endured the act of being raped, which she will deal with for the rest of her life, but a public humiliation which will never leave her. So really, they raped her twice. Once physically and then on social media.

I hope the girls mother decided to move to another town.

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

The world is full of people who have been penetrated against their will with an object other than a penis and who shy away from calling their experiences rape because ignorant views like yours are so widely held. I guarantee you that having someone shove anything up your vagina while you're unconscious and unable to consent, and then putting the pics and videos of it up online, is awfully fucking traumatic.

Worth reading: http://www.ebony.com/news-views/5-ways-we-can-teach-men-not-to-rape-456#axzz2Nv55FMdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

Penetration without consent is rape. Finger, penis, knife, doesn't matter.

I agree. Finger, whatever, not a mitigating fact.

Anonymous wrote:Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

Penetration without consent is rape. Finger, penis, knife, doesn't matter.

Not to sound like I am condoning what happened but is there anyone on this board who is aware that these boys did NOT have sexual intercourse with this girl?

For some reason Ohio law says that digital penetration (fingering) falls under their rape law. On any given Friday night how many 16 year old girls are "fingered" by boys in this country? A million? More?


I am sure that the judge took this into consideration and that is why the case was held in juvenile court. The judge could not sentence them to much more than he did because the law in that state restricts a judge from sentencing anyone past their 21st birthday.

Again......I don't condone what they did but its not quite as bad as the media has presented it.

The Steubenville thing is horrifying, and I am outraged that the boys were not punished more severely. It also makes me really angry when people blame the victim, as in, sure he was a rapist but she should not have been drinking/wearing a short skirt/coming on to strange men.

However, I have to admit that I am intensely uncomfortable with situations like the one described in "Ask Amy" (*), or every situation where a girl is drunk, being labeled as rape.

As a woman, I can recall several occasions where I started out saying no, but eventually allowed myself to be seduced, and enjoyed it too. I can also recall times where I was the sexual "aggressor", such as with the good Christian boys I dated in college, who were raised to believe that sex before marriage is wrong, and will almost certainly lead to pregnancy or disease. In my adult relationships as well, I would not be surprised if there were more than a few instances when a man did not want to have sex as much as I did but was afraid that I would get my feelings hurt or think him "unmanly" if he said no. Does this make me a rapist?

The drinking I don't have much personal experience with. Certainly being sober the first time you have sex with someone sounds like good advice. And not having sex with anyone who is so drunk they can't stand should be a no-brainer. But when two drunk people fall into bed together, while its not unlikely at least one of them will regret it in the morning, is it rape? And if so, is it always the man who was the rapist?

(*) http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ask-...2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you assume we haven't already tried to instill in our daughters the self respect and self worth to refuse to send inappropriate texts/picutres?

Does sending these pictures and texts equal consent?

Exactly!

And sending out inappropriate texts/pictures has little to nothing to do with rape. Those are completely separate issues. A girl that sends inappropriate texts still needs to be a willing participant in any sexual encounter!

I'm the mother of a daughter. I'm also a date rape survivor, although it didn't occur to me until years later that my weak, intoxicated "no" was actually a no, and his choice to have sex with me was rape and not just me caving in since I was wasted and didn't fight him off. Truly, it took me years to realize that it wasn't my fault since I do blame myself for acting irresponsibly by putting myself in a situation where someone could rape me.

Sex without consent is rape. HOWEVER, I intend to teach my daughter that, while she can not ever do anything that "asks" for being raped, she does have a responsibility to do her utmost to keep herself safe. Does she know the value systems of those boys to whom she might one day text naked pictures of herself? If not, it's like throwing meat to lions or walking alone through a crappy part of town at 3am. She isn't asking for it, it isn't right if she is raped/eaten/mugged, but she did not do her part to keep from putting herself in potentially dangerous situations.

There seems to be something... an apologist chip maybe, that grows in a woman's brain when she bears sons.

WTF? Teach your boys that nothing beyond a clearly voiced "yes" means "yes".