Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 18:21     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:The Sidwell of NY is Trinity but just saying that may lead to a convoy of chauffeur-driven Range Rovers, Jaguars and Bentley's with Dalton, Collegiate and Horace Mann stickers coming down to attack us.


Ha,ha,ha. Yup, Trinity is the Sidwell of NY.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 18:18     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All of you people prattling on about the Ivy League - you realize it's an just an athletic conference, right? You're no different on the gun-totin' rednecks down south (at whom you no doubt look down your noses) who woudl only let their kids go to an SEC school.

I think you're missing the point. I suspect that for most people, it's not that they are hellbent on children actually attending an Ivy; instead people are looking for ways to compare the strengths and weaknesses of different high schools. One measure of a high school is how well its grads do in college placement. People look as Ivy admissions as an easy proxy for how the school as a whole does in college placement.


??? ummm, actually though the Ivy League is an athletic conference, the particular group of schools referred to as "Ivy" do have other commonalities: they are private( do not rely on state funds/ think state budget cuts) , very selective in admission, and have HUGE endowments which allow them to offer lots of FA to kids who qualify. Their endowments ( Harvard's is ? 500 Billion also allow them to attract top faculty by offering funded chairs of certain departments, guest lecturers who are leaders in their field, engage in leading scientific research, on and on. Their medical schools, which attract the best and brightest, staff teaching hospitals ( Mass General, Boston Children's, Penn, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Packard Children's/Stanford Medical Center , etc.. with the best and brigtest doctors to provide medical care to low income people who would not have this access otherwise.

Just to name a few things that set the Ivy's apart.


Do they also teach you (i) that Stanford is not in the Ivy League, and (ii) the proper use of an apostrophe?


People in glass houses. Sheesh. Poster referenced Ivy medical schools graduates who staff teaching hospitals such as Packard Children's.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 16:55     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
The Sidwell of NY is Trinity but just saying that may lead to a convoy of chauffeur-driven Range Rovers, Jaguars and Bentley's with Dalton, Collegiate and Horace Mann stickers coming down to attack us.
SAM2
Post 02/28/2013 16:48     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say that your confidence in the Examiner data is based on its consistency with other data? I'm trying to understand how consistency with the reported data on, for example, National Merit semi-finalists (more reliable, I would say, than SAT data since the College Board releases a list of NMSFs) provides any real confidence in the SAT data? Yes, given the percentage of NMSFs, it's entirely possible that the average SAT is composite 2100, but isn't it also possible that it's much lower and that the students recognized as NMSFs were outliers on the high end.

Let me try to explain my reasoning. When I look at the objectively verifiable Sidwell data, I see several years worth of data in several categories that place its students among the top few independent schools in DMV in terms of academic performance. These categories include NMSF% (15+ years of data), Presidential Scholar data (10-11 years of data), and AMC Math Contest data (8 years of data). So when I find a 1400 SAT average from a reasonably credible source (a published Washington Examiner article as opposed to an anonymous online post), and that SAT average is similar to the SAT averages from others in the top few independent schools, I see that consistency as adding to the credibility of the 1400 number. If the Washington Examiner article had pegged Sidwell's SAT average at 1200 or 1600, I'd see the number as an outlier compared to how Sidwell students perform in other academic measures, so I'd wonder about the difference. I hope that helps explain my reasoning.

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue about which schools are the academic tops. All of these schools are very strong academically, and the differences in numbers I track are often marginal. I also think that if you choose a school for your child based on some number in a spreadsheet, you're making an uninformed choice.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 15:59     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All of you people prattling on about the Ivy League - you realize it's an just an athletic conference, right? You're no different on the gun-totin' rednecks down south (at whom you no doubt look down your noses) who woudl only let their kids go to an SEC school.

I think you're missing the point. I suspect that for most people, it's not that they are hellbent on children actually attending an Ivy; instead people are looking for ways to compare the strengths and weaknesses of different high schools. One measure of a high school is how well its grads do in college placement. People look as Ivy admissions as an easy proxy for how the school as a whole does in college placement.


??? ummm, actually though the Ivy League is an athletic conference, the particular group of schools referred to as "Ivy" do have other commonalities: they are private( do not rely on state funds/ think state budget cuts) , very selective in admission, and have HUGE endowments which allow them to offer lots of FA to kids who qualify. Their endowments ( Harvard's is ? 500 Billion also allow them to attract top faculty by offering funded chairs of certain departments, guest lecturers who are leaders in their field, engage in leading scientific research, on and on. Their medical schools, which attract the best and brightest, staff teaching hospitals ( Mass General, Boston Children's, Penn, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Packard Children's/Stanford Medical Center , etc.. with the best and brigtest doctors to provide medical care to low income people who would not have this access otherwise.

Just to name a few things that set the Ivy's apart.


Do they also teach you (i) that Stanford is not in the Ivy League, and (ii) the proper use of an apostrophe?
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 15:40     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:
??? ummm, actually though the Ivy League is an athletic conference, the particular group of schools referred to as "Ivy" do have other commonalities: they are private( do not rely on state funds/ think state budget cuts


This is not exactly accurate. Each of the Ivy League schools (whether called "university" or "college") are major research universities. They depend to a signficant degree on Federal and state funding for research and other direct aid. Princeton, for example, manages the plasma physics lab for the Energy Department, and there are similar ties at other Ivy universities. Whether benefiting from large private endowments or not, these schools like other U.S. universities (and their students) will feel some effect from looming government budged cuts.


Princeton has a MASSIVE endowment. They will feel nothing.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 15:26     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
??? ummm, actually though the Ivy League is an athletic conference, the particular group of schools referred to as "Ivy" do have other commonalities: they are private( do not rely on state funds/ think state budget cuts


This is not exactly accurate. Each of the Ivy League schools (whether called "university" or "college") are major research universities. They depend to a signficant degree on Federal and state funding for research and other direct aid. Princeton, for example, manages the plasma physics lab for the Energy Department, and there are similar ties at other Ivy universities. Whether benefiting from large private endowments or not, these schools like other U.S. universities (and their students) will feel some effect from looming government budged cuts.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 14:38     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:What is the "Sidwell of New York"? Just curious.[/quote

Dalton
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 13:03     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
SAHM2 --

I agree that Sidwell does treat all information regarding college admissions and standardized testing in a highly confidential manner, which begs the question: where did the Examiner get their data and how reliable is it? Let's stipulate that it's accurate, then the question arises: is it based on 1 graduating class?

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say that your confidence in the Examiner data is based on its consistency with other data? I'm trying to understand how consistency with the reported data on, for example, National Merit semi-finalists (more reliable, I would say, than SAT data since the College Board releases a list of NMSFs) provides any real confidence in the SAT data? Yes, given the percentage of NMSFs, it's entirely possible that the average SAT is composite 2100, but isn't it also possible that it's much lower and that the students recognized as NMSFs were outliers on the high end.

Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:59     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
But an average kid in a top school with the top teachers and best resources availabe, tutoring etc, is probably going to be a disappointment in a college with large class sizes where professors are not out to cater for your snowflakes every whim

Surely an average kid with same scores from a ghetto school has more potential. Unless the school is after your money and you can build a new social hall for them
SAM2
Post 02/28/2013 11:56     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnukIDABt_JKdDdZYXlQbnFUQ0VfMHRpTFp1SUIxS2c&hl=en_US#gid=5

Here is the spread sheet. If the link doesn't work just try searching on the forum as I did. It says that Sidwell has a 700 average SAT which is the best in DC, but not by that much. Other schools in other cities - NY - have higher average scores. As I said before, it's consistent with my understanding of about how kids at the school perform.


That's my spreadsheet, so I'll comment. I am highly confident of the accuracy of most numbers on there, because I carefully gathered them from trustworthy sources. However, although I still have fair confidence in the SAT score averages, those are the least trustworthy of the bunch. Different schools and other sources report SAT averages, but they are often reported in varying formats. For example, one school might report the mean SAT, another reports median, and another reports a range for the middle 50%. Also, I sometimes pick and choose among non-school sources, because many have questionable credibility. For example, if someone posts a list of SAT averages on College Confidential, I won't trust it unless I can independently verify the accuracy.

That 1400 average for Sidwell has always been itchy for me. It's only based on one source, a Washington Examiner article from the early 2000s. In my experience, Sidwell simply does not release information to the public; they are more private than any other school I investigated. I find it quite frustrating, but I have grown to respect them for it. Nevertheless, I think it's reasonably accurate because it's consistent with all the other data for that school. I'm happy to see a Sidwell parent with actual inside info confirm that it seems fairly accurate.

That's all I can add. I hope it helps minimize any disagreement.

[ETA: The Sidwell college success number also has a shaky basis IMO, because it's a mathematical calculation without multiple years of data to support it. But again, it's consistent with other data on Sidwell, so I consider it reasonably accurate.]
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:40     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnukIDABt_JKdDdZYXlQbnFUQ0VfMHRpTFp1SUIxS2c&hl=en_US#gid=5


Here is the spread sheet. If the link doesn't work just try searching on the forum as I did. It says that Sidwell has a 700 average SAT which is the best in DC, but not by that much. Other schools in other cities - NY - have higher average scores. As I said before, it's consistent with my understanding of about how kids at the school perform.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:39     Subject: Re:Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
What is the "Sidwell of New York"? Just curious.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 10:49     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1. That's a multi-year tally, so if NYU is Columbia and if the numbers are accurate, than that's about 16-17% Ivy.

2. TJ's Ivy percentage is about 15%.


Good point; I missed the "per year". But 15%, is still very good. Similar to TJ.


TJ mom -- thanks for your seal of approval! I'll sleep better tonight -- in my bed across the river -- knowing that we who do not live in the Old Dominion have your blessing. Carry on!
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 10:38     Subject: Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?
Anonymous wrote:Another Sidwell parent here -- can I ask what you're basing this on? I know the kids claim to know what everyone else scored, but do you really think those reports are credible beyond your child's circle of very close friends? I sure don't.''

Like I said, I read it somewhere here on a spreadsheet. That said, my recent grad had a score in that range that was average for the school. Sidwell kids tend to do extremely well in verbal and reading- writing sections of the SAT which brings up averages. As to your snarky tone about whether or not the reports are credible, the scores and grades were consistent with the colleges kids got in to. You get to know the families pretty well and I don't think there was any misinformation about grades and scores. That hasn't been my experience at the school.


I don't mean to be snarky, but I am trying to understand the basis for your statement. If it's a spreadsheet that was posted on DCUM, I'd question where that information came from. I just don't think anybody knows this other than the college counselors.

I'd also say that your experience with respect to discussions about grades and scores seems quite different from my own with 2 kids who've graduated from the school. I can't recall ever having a conversation with another parent about our kids' SAT scores, and only a very few conversations about grades -- in fact, I can count them on the fingers of one hand. In any case, my gut just says 700 sounds too high -- certainly for the median, though it might be an average -- even that, however, sounds a little improbable to me. There are kids who don't test well and there are kids who don't take the prep seriously. And, yes, there are kids who go to schools that are pretty far down in the rankings as far as selectivity. That doesn't mean I'm judging those kids or those schools ill, but Sidwell is not Lake Wobegone -- all the children are not above average.