Well said, PP. I feel like all the kids are entitled to be at Haycock. Just because they are there because of AAP does not make Haycock any less their school. That is where they are assigned and entitled to attend. I really do not feel like there has been much animosity between the groups before this year -- with the notable exception of a few, LOUD parents. I feel like most people are very welcoming and that the PTA is inclusive and has active parents from both neighborhood and center.

That said, none of is are guaranteed our school assignment. That means neighborhood and center kids. That language is all over the FCPS website. So, I think we all need to know that our school can be changed whether by center reassignment or boundary study.

I also think that a Cluster II center makes a lot of sense. I was surprised to find out that there was not one. In light of Haycock's extreme overcrowding, I think grandfathering should not happen. This is just one of the cases where kids can be reassigned. And, there is definitely precedent of kids being reassigned to different schools and being just fine.

I'm an AAP parent at Haycock who happens to reside in Cluster 2. I think this is a very raw, emotional issue. The Haycock families who live in Cluster 2 feel singled out. Their children didn't create this problem, yet they are the ones expected to shoulder the burden of addressing it. I didn't say "fixing" it because moving them out will not fix the problem. It's a bandaid. It's very unfair to them.

I think for the Haycock parents that live within the base school boundaries, they feel that the school district has not listened to them. The school is crowded and they want quick relief. I agree. It sucks that FCPS has not done its job and has caused this situation.

I'll be sad if this divides our community. I've met wonderful Haycock parents that live in the base school boundaries and in the AAP center boundaries. We are ALL in boundary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP is much better for science/tech types compared to IB.

The only way in which AP is "better" for science/tech kids is that AP does not require the writing fluency that IB does (even in IB science and math courses), so it's easier to be a one trick pony in an AP program.

This really should be a separate thread. There are quite a few studies exploring the rigour of IB math/science courses and finding them lacking in comparison to their AP equivalents. And, of course, the IB programme is nowhere in evidence at TJHSST, which also tells you something.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP is much better for science/tech types compared to IB.

The only way in which AP is "better" for science/tech kids is that AP does not require the writing fluency that IB does (even in IB science and math courses), so it's easier to be a one trick pony in an AP program.

This really should be a separate thread. There are quite a few studies exploring the rigour of IB math/science courses and finding them lacking in comparison to their AP equivalents. And, of course, the IB programme is nowhere in evidence at TJHSST, which also tells you something.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder. I completely understood PP's comments. There are entire threads about AP vs. IB. Marshall kids also sometimes transfer to Madison, but some of them probably live closer to McLean.

Whatever. Personally, I think some Cluster 2 parents at Haycock get touchy and judgmental precisely because their kids are at a crowded, out-of-boundary school in a different pyramid. If creating another AAP center at a Cluster 2 school will reduce the overcrowding and make the Cluster 2 parents feel more at home, I'm all for it. I'd still grandfather the Cluster 2 kids who are already at Haycock if their parents don't want them to change schools again, even if it means putting up with both the overcrowding and the "you're so pushy, and we're so chill" carping for longer. The kids should come first.

Yes, Madison kids also transfer to Marshall, and vice versa. This current year, slightly more Madison kids transferred to Marshall than vice versa, and about twice as many Marshall kids transferred to McLean as vice versa. It's not obvious why Madison families would be more interested in the IB program at Marshall than McLean families, so I suspect it has more to do with Madison kids who attended Kilmer (primarily a Marshall feeder) wanting to stay with their middle school friends.

Anonymous wrote:AP is much better for science/tech types compared to IB.

The only way in which AP is "better" for science/tech kids is that AP does not require the writing fluency that IB does (even in IB science and math courses), so it's easier to be a one trick pony in an AP program.

Anonymous wrote:AP is much better for science/tech types compared to IB.

That's debatable, and that would be a completely different thread.

AP is much better for science/tech types compared to IB.

Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder. I completely understood PP's comments. There are entire threads about AP vs. IB. Marshall kids also sometimes transfer to Madison, but some of them probably live closer to McLean.

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Haycock AAP parent who finds the large majority of Haycock parents to be very entitled and off-putting.

I don't think that kids transfer to McLean because they enjoy being surrounded by the drama. I think they transfer because obtaining a full IB diploma is significantly harder and much more restricting than obtaining a general AP diploma. It's really their only other option.

Kids at Marshall can take individual IB courses without going for the full IB diploma. Perhaps the Marshall kids or their parents think the kids will be at a disadvantage in the college admissions process if they don't pursue the full IB diploma and will fare better if they just take AP courses at another school. That's traditionally been one reason why some parents at other schools have resisted IB programs. But I did think a fair number of the Marshall kids transferring to McLean had been Haycock AAP kids. Maybe not.

I don't think there's much "drama" at either Marshall or McLean apart from the typical teen-age stuff. I think you come across as having a chip on your shoulder when you make such statements.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I did not want to send my current 4th grader to Haycock last year. My past experience with the PTA -- when our oldest attended AAP there -- has been that Haycock base parents are unfriendly, entitled and stuck-up. If Cluster 2 had its own AAP center, my child would have gone there. But we don't, so we had to choose between going to Haycock or depriving our child of the AAP services he needs to excel. I am really hoping our base school opens an AAP center so that we don't have to make this choice with our youngest.

HOWEVER, what is best for my current AAP kid is to stay at Haycock and complete his elementary years with the friends and teachers and counselors he has come to know. Moving us to yet another school next year would mean 3 moves in 4 year for him. It's not fair to solve the overcrowding problem on the backs of helpless 8 to 11 year olds!

I'm sorry this has been your experience. The statistics i've seen indicate that about twice as many Marshall students transfer to McLean as vice versa. That suggests to me that a lot of kids from Cluster 2 who have been in Cluster 1 schools have a good experience and want to stay in the McLean pyramid. Maybe those stats will change when Cluster 2 has its own center.

I think Haycock is a wonderful school with great students, teachers and parents, but obviously the protracted overcrowding and uncertainty as to the renovation plans have created the potential for people to feel like they are being blamed or excluded.

I'm another Haycock AAP parent who finds the large majority of Haycock parents to be very entitled and off-putting.

I don't think that kids transfer to McLean because they enjoy being surrounded by the drama. I think they transfer because obtaining a full IB diploma is significantly harder and much more restricting than obtaining a general AP diploma. It's really their only other option.

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I did not want to send my current 4th grader to Haycock last year. My past experience with the PTA -- when our oldest attended AAP there -- has been that Haycock base parents are unfriendly, entitled and stuck-up. If Cluster 2 had its own AAP center, my child would have gone there. But we don't, so we had to choose between going to Haycock or depriving our child of the AAP services he needs to excel. I am really hoping our base school opens an AAP center so that we don't have to make this choice with our youngest.

HOWEVER, what is best for my current AAP kid is to stay at Haycock and complete his elementary years with the friends and teachers and counselors he has come to know. Moving us to yet another school next year would mean 3 moves in 4 year for him. It's not fair to solve the overcrowding problem on the backs of helpless 8 to 11 year olds!

I'm sorry this has been your experience. The statistics i've seen indicate that about twice as many Marshall students transfer to McLean as vice versa. That suggests to me that a lot of kids from Cluster 2 who have been in Cluster 1 schools have a good experience and want to stay in the McLean pyramid. Maybe those stats will change when Cluster 2 has its own center.

I think Haycock is a wonderful school with great students, teachers and parents, but obviously the protracted overcrowding and uncertainty as to the renovation plans have created the potential for people to feel like they are being blamed or excluded.

Frankly, I did not want to send my current 4th grader to Haycock last year. My past experience with the PTA -- when our oldest attended AAP there -- has been that Haycock base parents are unfriendly, entitled and stuck-up. If Cluster 2 had its own AAP center, my child would have gone there. But we don't, so we had to choose between going to Haycock or depriving our child of the AAP services he needs to excel. I am really hoping our base school opens an AAP center so that we don't have to make this choice with our youngest.

HOWEVER, what is best for my current AAP kid is to stay at Haycock and complete his elementary years with the friends and teachers and counselors he has come to know. Moving us to yet another school next year would mean 3 moves in 4 year for him. It's not fair to solve the overcrowding problem on the backs of helpless 8 to 11 year olds!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1

Bye bye Haycock, hello lower test scores on your profile! And your average and below average "base" kids whose parents bought in McLean can stick together at Haycock in their regular or remedial classes while my AAP DD goes elsewhere.

You mean Haycock might sink all the way down to the level of a .... Kent Gardens or Franklin Sherman? That's really scary to contemplate.

There are only a couple of dozen houses in McLean for which Haycock is the base school. Haycock is in Falls Church, where most in-boundary students live. Not that it really matters, but if you want to go all snarky, checking your facts first always helps set up the punch-line.

I wish that a 970-student facility would magically appear at Haycock & Westmoreland tomorrow, so that no one had to make any tough decisions, but that seems not to be in the cards.

There's the problem. The school pop grew another 100+ kids just from last year. It's so far over capacity now that the school is literally closed to any new students. Haycock needs a plan to reduce its enrollment by next year. Everyone will not be happy with whatever the solution is that decided. If this matters to you get organized and involved in whatever decision process is taking place. While realizing that just doing nothing isn't an option though.

And why do we want one or two centers to be "the best" anyway when they are not open to the entire county?