Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted my child in the gifted program because he has a level of intellect that far exceeds the vast majority of his chronological peers. If he doesn't learn now how to apply that intellect, push himself to work hard and go beyond, and be comfortable with his differences, then he runs a real risk of an adult life of wasted opportunity, frustration, failure and depression.
AAP is not the goal, it is the means to hopefully a more positive end for my child.

If this is true, I don't think AAP will be satisfactory to you or your son.

Our highly rated elementary school is 40% AAP. Yes, 2 of the 5 classes per grade are all AAP. So much for "far exceeding the vast majority."

Anonymous wrote:I wanted my child in the gifted program because he has a level of intellect that far exceeds the vast majority of his chronological peers. If he doesn't learn now how to apply that intellect, push himself to work hard and go beyond, and be comfortable with his differences, then he runs a real risk of an adult life of wasted opportunity, frustration, failure and depression.

AAP is not the goal, it is the means to hopefully a more positive end for my child.

I agree 100%. But, as was stated above, AAP may not get you there. Be prepared to step in and supplement you kid's formal education with other effective enrichment activities.

+1

I think most people are vastly overestimating the students who are actually in the gifted programs. Most of them are just very hard working and a little smarter than average. Very few are out and out brilliant.

Regular classrooms are held back by the lowest students - teachers must teach to the bottom because thanks to NCLB they are only accountable for the lowest students. Achievement gaps are closed by letting the highest achievers languish. The low performers take up all of the teacher's time and energy, while high achievers sit around doing groupwork and having a positive influence on their struggling peers.

I want my kid in a gifted program so he won't be held to the learning pace of the slowest students. Many parents in low-income areas want to get in because they want to get their kids out of a low-income school without paying for private school. Makes sense to me.

Anyone who thinks kids don't belong in the program if they have to prep for cogat doesn't realize how many kids who are there actually did prep.

Students go to school to learn. For a student to advance from one level to the next, she needs to demonstrate certain level of competency; her knowledge and abilities need to be assessed. Grade/score is a measure of such an assessment. A grade matters as long as its is the only, or the most effective, way of assessing knowledge/abilities. If a better (more convincing) measure is available, grade would not matter as much. For example, the acceptance of home schooled kids to college depends less on grades and more on student portfolios. Let's not give grade more importance than it deserves, especially in front of young impressionable kids who might mistakenly assume schoolwork is about getting grades and not about learning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds like an advertisement for an expensive test prep program. Did you even read the whole post you quoted? No one says scores don't matter, but that there are narrow methods and broad methods to get there. The broader methods will get you a better educated adult. And in the very long run, it's not the score that matters, but what lies behind the score that matters.

Well, you must be kidding. Your argument smacks of the difference between narrow and broad rape.
The scare DOES matter in America.
Sports is a mega multi-billion dollar industry (see Penn State) and American adults, parents and their kids provide all the evidence the SCORE does matter. And to the exemplary athletes you mention (jordan, kobe, phelps, federer, serena, lance amstrong, babe ruth, larry bird) the SCORE does matter. I suggest you descend from your throne and smell the roses. The score matters to the athletes and the hero whorshipping spectators who are largely American like yourself. The proof is all around you. Open your eyes and ears. Are you then surprised Americans are counting National MeritFfinalists like summer olympic medals?

Score matters during the process. Today, do you care about the score of Super Bowl 17? The Redskins won...great run by Riggins on 4th and 2. But, the Redskins were champs. The outcome matters. Redskins one.

In academics, scores are part of the process for selection. Scores in the second grade do not matter after AAP selection. No one cares. No one cares about SAT scores after college admission, or GRE scores (MCATS, LSATs) after grad/professional school. No one cares about the HS GPA after HS, or the college GPA after a few years on the job.

Scores are used as a way to quantify potential (2nd grade) or knowledge (e.g. SAT's). No one will pay me a salary based on my SAT scores, though. Nor will they pay me based on my HS diploma, B.S., MA, or PhD. They pay me to do something that needs to get done.

When I had cancer surgery a few months ago, I did not ask the surgeon how he did on the standardized tests. I did ask him how many of these procedures he had done.

To gain admission into any medical school, you would have needed to graduate at the top of your college class and done fairly well on your MCATs.
When picking a surgeon, you should care about where he was trained. To get into a decent residency, you need to have done well on your boards. You don't need to ask how well he did on his standardized tests because he had to have scored well to even be a surgeon.

DH is a surgeon and he studied and aced all his exams starting from SATs.

Anonymous wrote:I wanted my child in the gifted program because he has a level of intellect that far exceeds the vast majority of his chronological peers. If he doesn't learn now how to apply that intellect, push himself to work hard and go beyond, and be comfortable with his differences, then he runs a real risk of an adult life of wasted opportunity, frustration, failure and depression.
AAP is not the goal, it is the means to hopefully a more positive end for my child.

If this is true, I don't think AAP will be satisfactory to you or your son.

I wanted my child in the gifted program because he has a level of intellect that far exceeds the vast majority of his chronological peers. If he doesn't learn now how to apply that intellect, push himself to work hard and go beyond, and be comfortable with his differences, then he runs a real risk of an adult life of wasted opportunity, frustration, failure and depression.

AAP is not the goal, it is the means to hopefully a more positive end for my child.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like an advertisement for an expensive test prep program....

Anonymous wrote:...sounds like good old American rugged Puritan competition to me commissioned by the framers of our constitution. Afterall,wasn't this the intent of our founders ....as leaders of our Supreme Court contend?

And consumers like to research a product before they buy by gathering information from as many sources as they can. Knowing whether a source will make money from the "information" being given out helps a consumer to evaluate the reliability of that information. It's all part of analyzing and forming a conclusion.

I am talking about second grade CogATs for AAP. If your kid has to prep for the CogAT to get in, they do not belong. Period.

It's OK at the end of the road to discount score. But, if the score is ignored during the process one never gets the chance to get to the end of the chosen road. They would have missed the cut in the process!

Score matters during the process. Today, do you care about the score of Super Bowl 17? The Redskins won...great run by Riggins on 4th and 2. But, the Redskins were champs. The outcome matters. Redskins one.

In academics, scores are part of the process for selection. Scores in the second grade do not matter after AAP selection. No one cares. No one cares about SAT scores after college admission, or GRE scores (MCATS, LSATs) after grad/professional school. No one cares about the HS GPA after HS, or the college GPA after a few years on the job.

Scores are used as a way to quantify potential (2nd grade) or knowledge (e.g. SAT's). No one will pay me a salary based on my SAT scores, though. Nor will they pay me based on my HS diploma, B.S., MA, or PhD. They pay me to do something that needs to get done.

When I had cancer surgery a few months ago, I did not ask the surgeon how he did on the standardized tests. I did ask him how many of these procedures he had done.

If the score matters during the process (eg, education -- K through 12) what's so surprising folk work hard to get into gifted programs (like trying to make the Pro team in camp, the Varsity high school team or the Olympic team)?

Yes, it is easy to sit back in one's arm chair and talk about the natural brilliance, intelligence, expertise, skill and performance of the "finished" packages like michael phelps, michael jordan, larry bird, lance armstrong, rafa nadal, kobe bryant, top surgeons and the like completely oblivious to the grinding years of hard work, toil, training, preparation honing a specific craft (as if their arrival was solely, or a large part, related to their immutable DNA). All these cats work as hard OR HARDER than those preparing for magnet programs in middle or high school, the Ivies and MIT. What all the fuss about? The score matters in America (always has); particulaly for those who do not own or have bought the system with their influence.
These things matter in elementary school ("tracking"), medical school admissions, admission to professional societies and the like. Admitting these realities in no way implies these are mandatory prerequisites for success in this country; but, the score does matter at the end of the day.

Score matters during the process. Today, do you care about the score of Super Bowl 17? The Redskins won...great run by Riggins on 4th and 2. But, the Redskins were champs. The outcome matters. Redskins one.

In academics, scores are part of the process for selection. Scores in the second grade do not matter after AAP selection. No one cares. No one cares about SAT scores after college admission, or GRE scores (MCATS, LSATs) after grad/professional school. No one cares about the HS GPA after HS, or the college GPA after a few years on the job.

Scores are used as a way to quantify potential (2nd grade) or knowledge (e.g. SAT's). No one will pay me a salary based on my SAT scores, though. Nor will they pay me based on my HS diploma, B.S., MA, or PhD. They pay me to do something that needs to get done.

When I had cancer surgery a few months ago, I did not ask the surgeon how he did on the standardized tests. I did ask him how many of these procedures he had done.

For a moment I was concerned you had no glue what score meant from your concrete analysis. But, I see you recognize in a surgeon the importance of the number and outcome of the cases he has done in your selection. Those reps, numbers, and outcomes came from years, sleepless nights of endless toil, repetition and preparation honing the skill to keep you alive (same for a pilot). This was not from endless walks in the park looking for less boring and less repetitious, workbook-like tasks, that somehow innoculate "more" meaning or "worth". Before you picked your surgeon I assure you the score did matter to him or her (as it matters to you). The surgeon has likely toiled to make the "varsity" and top dog all along (from every other night call for years, a rigorous residency training program that sacrifices folk who do not make the cut or "score"... Halsted pyramid training program and concept --- much like AAP and making the cut for admittance to TJ or Blair magnet. It's obxvious you have zero clue about medical school training in the US or the history of surgical training. Your surgeon obsviously didn't tell or educate you about that part.
Surgical trining is one of the bastions of good old rugged individual toil and competiton. And the "score" mattered every part of the long journey. Do not comment on what you know nothing about!

Anonymous wrote:

This sounds like an advertisement for an expensive test prep program. Did you even read the whole post you quoted? No one says scores don't matter, but that there are narrow methods and broad methods to get there. The broader methods will get you a better educated adult. And in the very long run, it's not the score that matters, but what lies behind the score that matters.

Well, you must be kidding. Your argument smacks of the difference between narrow and broad rape.
The scare DOES matter in America.
Sports is a mega multi-billion dollar industry (see Penn State) and American adults, parents and their kids provide all the evidence the SCORE does matter. And to the exemplary athletes you mention (jordan, kobe, phelps, federer, serena, lance amstrong, babe ruth, larry bird) the SCORE does matter. I suggest you descend from your throne and smell the roses. The score matters to the athletes and the hero whorshipping spectators who are largely American like yourself. The proof is all around you. Open your eyes and ears. Are you then surprised Americans are counting National MeritFfinalists like summer olympic medals?

Score matters during the process. Today, do you care about the score of Super Bowl 17? The Redskins won...great run by Riggins on 4th and 2. But, the Redskins were champs. The outcome matters. Redskins one.

In academics, scores are part of the process for selection. Scores in the second grade do not matter after AAP selection. No one cares. No one cares about SAT scores after college admission, or GRE scores (MCATS, LSATs) after grad/professional school. No one cares about the HS GPA after HS, or the college GPA after a few years on the job.

Scores are used as a way to quantify potential (2nd grade) or knowledge (e.g. SAT's). No one will pay me a salary based on my SAT scores, though. Nor will they pay me based on my HS diploma, B.S., MA, or PhD. They pay me to do something that needs to get done.

When I had cancer surgery a few months ago, I did not ask the surgeon how he did on the standardized tests. I did ask him how many of these procedures he had done.