Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 09:30     Subject: calling women "ladies"
I don't think the word in itself is demeaning at all. Any word can be used in a demeaning way. I have no problem being addressed as ladies - if the context is appropriate.

There is a big difference between:
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome...

and Lady, bring me my coffee!

It has nothing to do with the word, just how it is being used.
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 09:26     Subject: calling women "ladies"
http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/miss-manners-advice/miss-manners-he-insisted-on-calling-her-miss-2
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 09:24     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Anonymous wrote:I don't care for "ladies", even in as an email salutation from, for example, a member of my bookclub. I can't really say why -- but to my ears it sounds demeaning, even when it isn't meant that way. I personally don't use it, and (with the exception of said bookclub member) few people I know use it, either.


ITA. Belittling or "girlish"/coy.
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 09:22     Subject: calling women "ladies"
Ma'am is incorrect english. Say madam
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 06:44     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Anonymous wrote:Is it like calling someone, Ma'am? Somehow not the same respect as, Sir to a man.


I am happy to be called "ma'am." I certainly prefer it to "miss," because I am not a girl any longer (and I am fine with that; I do not think youth is better than age).

But "lady" rather than "woman" is demeaning. Think about it: If someone describes a man as "ungentlemanly," the non-gentleman is being condemned for the ethical side of his behavior. He's being unfair, dishonest, or rude. If a woman is "unladylike," she's being criticized for the superficial aspects of her behavior, for her failure to confirm to some imposed aesthetic standard: she's walking or sitting or talking in a way that is insufficiently dainty for someone's taste. Or, possibly, she is not being sufficiently virginal. In any case, fuck that noise.
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 03:44     Subject: calling women "ladies"
Yeah, 23:16, I'm surprised that a presumed professional could take such offense at a mistake a 25-year-old made, especially when you apologized. Calling people "lady" in the professional world, not good. Begrudging a young person for a rookie mistake, classless.
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2012 01:07     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Is it like calling someone, Ma'am? Somehow not the same respect as, Sir to a man.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:58     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Just googled and found this: http://open.salon.com/blog/hildy_johnson/2009/10/09/dont_call_me_lady

Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:56     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:ugh - one of my WORST professional moments, ever for a number of reasons. I was speaking at a conference and referenced another speakers presentation. I couldn't remember her name (strike 1) and instead of just skipping it or referring to her without name, I said "as the lady from CompanyName alluded,"

So bad. My boss (also a woman) was there, and reamed me for it. Not that I wasn't already reaming myself. I couldn't believe I'd done something so stupid! The "lady" in question was offended and wouldn't accept my apology. That's too bad, because I offered it sincerely and said I don't know what I was thinking to make such a rookie slip (I was a rookie - about 25 at the time and just starting to do a lot of speaking) and she wouldn't even meet my eyes.

I've recovered and, although the "lady" is in the same industry as me. I'm actually well above her in terms of "rank" but I'm still really uncomfortable every time I see her. Like "deep down, this woman knows I am an idiot under all of this professionalism!" She still doesn't acknowledge me, which I think at this point says more about her than me.

I will never call someone "lady" again, and I've since become MUCH more diligent about remembering names and also employing a better filter, professionally.



"The lady from CompanyName' clearly had issues. Come on, she wouldn't accept your apology for forgetting her name?? What kind of 'professionalism' is that?



I agree. Worse, at the time she was pretty big league and I was just starting out - it's not like she was slighted by some big wig trying to belittle her. I think she was most offended that I didn't defer to her properly as much as the "lady," which obviously sounded dismissive of her stature and importance. At the same time, the whole thing was so clumsy of me - not just calling her "the lady from" or whatever, but the apology, etc, ack. One of those days I'd rather forget!

I do think using "lady" is somewhat demeaning. To me it has a hint of "the little lady" to it. Seems patronizing. I have no problem hearing it in social settings and can't imagine being upset if someone used it to describe me in shorthand as the "lady from CompanyName" as I did many years back (though it would probably strike me that that person was clumsy and awkward, as I think I was). But I can totally get why "lady" is a trigger word. There's "the little lady" and there's the way "lady" can be used in a mean way, like "look, lady..." I think lady has emotional connotations that can be tangled up. So unless you're talking to your friends, skip it.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:33     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
Anonymous wrote:ugh - one of my WORST professional moments, ever for a number of reasons. I was speaking at a conference and referenced another speakers presentation. I couldn't remember her name (strike 1) and instead of just skipping it or referring to her without name, I said "as the lady from CompanyName alluded,"

So bad. My boss (also a woman) was there, and reamed me for it. Not that I wasn't already reaming myself. I couldn't believe I'd done something so stupid! The "lady" in question was offended and wouldn't accept my apology. That's too bad, because I offered it sincerely and said I don't know what I was thinking to make such a rookie slip (I was a rookie - about 25 at the time and just starting to do a lot of speaking) and she wouldn't even meet my eyes.

I've recovered and, although the "lady" is in the same industry as me. I'm actually well above her in terms of "rank" but I'm still really uncomfortable every time I see her. Like "deep down, this woman knows I am an idiot under all of this professionalism!" She still doesn't acknowledge me, which I think at this point says more about her than me.

I will never call someone "lady" again, and I've since become MUCH more diligent about remembering names and also employing a better filter, professionally.



"The lady from CompanyName' clearly had issues. Come on, she wouldn't accept your apology for forgetting her name?? What kind of 'professionalism' is that?

Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:18     Subject: calling women "ladies"
WTF lady is fine, who are you people get a fucking life and do some work
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:16     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
ugh - one of my WORST professional moments, ever for a number of reasons. I was speaking at a conference and referenced another speakers presentation. I couldn't remember her name (strike 1) and instead of just skipping it or referring to her without name, I said "as the lady from CompanyName alluded,"

So bad. My boss (also a woman) was there, and reamed me for it. Not that I wasn't already reaming myself. I couldn't believe I'd done something so stupid! The "lady" in question was offended and wouldn't accept my apology. That's too bad, because I offered it sincerely and said I don't know what I was thinking to make such a rookie slip (I was a rookie - about 25 at the time and just starting to do a lot of speaking) and she wouldn't even meet my eyes.

I've recovered and, although the "lady" is in the same industry as me. I'm actually well above her in terms of "rank" but I'm still really uncomfortable every time I see her. Like "deep down, this woman knows I am an idiot under all of this professionalism!" She still doesn't acknowledge me, which I think at this point says more about her than me.

I will never call someone "lady" again, and I've since become MUCH more diligent about remembering names and also employing a better filter, professionally.

Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:09     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
You guys are weird and REALLY uptight.

If I am emailing 2 or more female colleagues, with no men as recipients, I might use the term "Ladies, we need to prepare ...." or I might say "Jennifer and Stephanie, ....".

I do the EXACT SAME THING when emailing 2 or more male colleagues: "Gentlemen, the client is going to need such and such ..."
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 23:06     Subject: calling women "ladies"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Isn't anyone here old enough to remember Marilyn French's feminist novel The Women's Room? The cover had a sign saying "Ladies Room," and ladies was crossed out to say women's. And how often do we use a public restrooms that are labeled "ladies" anymore? So something's changed in the 35 years since the book came out.

To me, ladies still sounds somewhat demeaning. I prefer women. And anyone over 18 should be a woman, not a girl, although when I was in my early 20s my friend and I coined "womenettes."



Ugh baby boomer feminists couldn't go away quick enough. I am glad we are now about being feminnim rather than feminist.


Well bless your heart.

Anonymous
Post 06/06/2012 22:52     Subject: Re:calling women "ladies"
I don't care for "ladies", even in as an email salutation from, for example, a member of my bookclub. I can't really say why -- but to my ears it sounds demeaning, even when it isn't meant that way. I personally don't use it, and (with the exception of said bookclub member) few people I know use it, either.