Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:41     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:OP, I have noticed that there are not many open minds on this site. I think it is because many of the women here have actually had abortions or so it seems from many of these posts. I guess once you've gone through with an abortion, it would be difficult to think that maybe there was another option.

Also, a lot of these women waited until they were past 35 to have children, knowing the risks. So that grouping of women is probably more okay with aborting a child if it happens to have a disability they are not willing to accept.


Oh fuck you. I didn't find a suitable mate until after 35. I assume had I been a single mother you would have found a flaw in that life plan also?
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:41     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:Well all you people judging those that did have an abortion, get yourselves on over to the spin off thread re adopting a disabled child and sign up! Adotpion isn't just for those TTC/IF folks.


Done and done.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:37     Subject: Re:s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I have a cousin with spina bifida. She had a very difficult childhood filled with painful surgeries. She is now a college-educated, married woman leading a wonderful life.

I also had a pregnancy that I chose to terminate because of Down Syndrome. I did this because while I know that many people with Down Syndrome go on to lead long, healthy lives, I also know of babies who died immediately after birth, at 4 months, and at 21. I've known families that have fallen apart and elderly parents who are spending their last years caring for adult children who cannot take care of themselves. We decided we did not want to take the chance that that could happen to our family. We did not want our older child to have to care for a disabled child after we are gone. I understand that you can never predict the future, but we considered our odds and chose not to take the chance.

That does not mean I do not value the lives of disabled people, like my cousin. I made a choice that I felt was best for my family and it has nothing to do with other families and their choices. I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices.


Thank you for posting. Two of my three children have special needs and while I love them dearly, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I used to be surprised with parents of SN kids were so judgmental about others terminating pregnancies because of disability/genetic defects but as I've gotten older I realize there are some people who just can't imagine an experience different than their own or that have some sort of 'you get what you deserve' attitude. But, they're in the minority. I'm just grateful we have choices.

- I'd also like to see these pro-life hardliners direct as half much energy and resource towards supporting SN kids and their families as they do on trying to eliminate choice. Why don't they have an outreach program to support SN families that they can point to? They could say 'if you have that baby rather than abort it, we'll support you!'.


religious pro life organizations have many outreach and assistance programs for SN kids



Um no....they don't.

Put your money where your mouth is.


http://jillshouse.org/


AAA Women for Choice in Manassas

http://www.hopeinnova.org/

Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:34     Subject: Re:s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I have a cousin with spina bifida. She had a very difficult childhood filled with painful surgeries. She is now a college-educated, married woman leading a wonderful life.

I also had a pregnancy that I chose to terminate because of Down Syndrome. I did this because while I know that many people with Down Syndrome go on to lead long, healthy lives, I also know of babies who died immediately after birth, at 4 months, and at 21. I've known families that have fallen apart and elderly parents who are spending their last years caring for adult children who cannot take care of themselves. We decided we did not want to take the chance that that could happen to our family. We did not want our older child to have to care for a disabled child after we are gone. I understand that you can never predict the future, but we considered our odds and chose not to take the chance.

That does not mean I do not value the lives of disabled people, like my cousin. I made a choice that I felt was best for my family and it has nothing to do with other families and their choices. I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices.


Thank you for posting. Two of my three children have special needs and while I love them dearly, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I used to be surprised with parents of SN kids were so judgmental about others terminating pregnancies because of disability/genetic defects but as I've gotten older I realize there are some people who just can't imagine an experience different than their own or that have some sort of 'you get what you deserve' attitude. But, they're in the minority. I'm just grateful we have choices.

- I'd also like to see these pro-life hardliners direct as half much energy and resource towards supporting SN kids and their families as they do on trying to eliminate choice. Why don't they have an outreach program to support SN families that they can point to? They could say 'if you have that baby rather than abort it, we'll support you!'.


religious pro life organizations have many outreach and assistance programs for SN kids



Um no....they don't.

Put your money where your mouth is.


http://jillshouse.org/
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:34     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:But it's also about the baby itself. THe pain and suffering the baby would experience. Whatever siblings exist, and the life of those siblings. The relationship of the parents. Etc. It is not about the mother. And saying it is all about the mother and why can't she just pull herself together just makes it all harder on that person.


Again, you are just looking at the negatives. Maybe the family would get a lot out of it. Maybe their lives would be enriched by broadening their world and the circles in which they run. Maybe the siblings would learn that it's not about what you look like, or what you can do, but that it's just about being a human being and doing the best you can up to your own ability. Maybe the spouses would feel a sense of gratification and love knowing that they have a new child, and shudder to think what life would have been like if they had made the other decision.

Gosh, aren't we the generation who grew up with DS kids on tv, singing "Free to Be You and Me?" Sounds like all anyone got out of that was "Free to be me. . .everybody else get out of my way."

Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:33     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well all you people judging those that did have an abortion, get yourselves on over to the spin off thread re adopting a disabled child and sign up! Adotpion isn't just for those TTC/IF folks.


Please don't do that. Disabled kids aren't a punishment and they are not a second-class choice for adoption.


I don't think anyone is saying they are a punishment or a second-class choice. Really, the only people who are saying that are the ones who are saying they don't deserve to live at all and should just be aborted.


People shouldn't try to pin adoption of special needs kids onto whether someone is pro-life or pro-choice. There are all kinds of reasons for adopting a child and for adopting a special needs child. If it's a crusade for you, forget it.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:31     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well all you people judging those that did have an abortion, get yourselves on over to the spin off thread re adopting a disabled child and sign up! Adotpion isn't just for those TTC/IF folks.


Please don't do that. Disabled kids aren't a punishment and they are not a second-class choice for adoption.


I don't think anyone is saying they are a punishment or a second-class choice. Really, the only people who are saying that are the ones who are saying they don't deserve to live at all and should just be aborted.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:28     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:Well all you people judging those that did have an abortion, get yourselves on over to the spin off thread re adopting a disabled child and sign up! Adotpion isn't just for those TTC/IF folks.


Please don't do that. Disabled kids aren't a punishment and they are not a second-class choice for adoption.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:27     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
But it's also about the baby itself. THe pain and suffering the baby would experience. Whatever siblings exist, and the life of those siblings. The relationship of the parents. Etc. It is not about the mother. And saying it is all about the mother and why can't she just pull herself together just makes it all harder on that person.

To continue your analogy, we do say to friends yes, you can do it. But if your friend decides to do something else, we don't browbeat her for making a different decision than we would have made. We say you can do it, I'm here for you if you do, and I'm here for you if you don't. We don't say YOU'RE WRONG.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:27     Subject: Re:s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I have a cousin with spina bifida. She had a very difficult childhood filled with painful surgeries. She is now a college-educated, married woman leading a wonderful life.

I also had a pregnancy that I chose to terminate because of Down Syndrome. I did this because while I know that many people with Down Syndrome go on to lead long, healthy lives, I also know of babies who died immediately after birth, at 4 months, and at 21. I've known families that have fallen apart and elderly parents who are spending their last years caring for adult children who cannot take care of themselves. We decided we did not want to take the chance that that could happen to our family. We did not want our older child to have to care for a disabled child after we are gone. I understand that you can never predict the future, but we considered our odds and chose not to take the chance.

That does not mean I do not value the lives of disabled people, like my cousin. I made a choice that I felt was best for my family and it has nothing to do with other families and their choices. I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices.


Thank you for posting. Two of my three children have special needs and while I love them dearly, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I used to be surprised with parents of SN kids were so judgmental about others terminating pregnancies because of disability/genetic defects but as I've gotten older I realize there are some people who just can't imagine an experience different than their own or that have some sort of 'you get what you deserve' attitude. But, they're in the minority. I'm just grateful we have choices.

- I'd also like to see these pro-life hardliners direct as half much energy and resource towards supporting SN kids and their families as they do on trying to eliminate choice. Why don't they have an outreach program to support SN families that they can point to? They could say 'if you have that baby rather than abort it, we'll support you!'.


religious pro life organizations have many outreach and assistance programs for SN kids



Um no....they don't.

Put your money where your mouth is.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:25     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Well all you people judging those that did have an abortion, get yourselves on over to the spin off thread re adopting a disabled child and sign up! Adotpion isn't just for those TTC/IF folks.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:22     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote: Because it's about more than you you you and how great and capable you are.


In my posts above, I didn't talk at all about me or my abilities. I said this forum seems to be populated by a lot of people who are really smart, competent, capable, and have done great things, and CAN do great things! Didn't talk about myself at all! Talking about what I hear and read on here pretty much all the time, and what I know of the area. We generally aren't a bunch of helpless schmucks around here, the folks who tend to congregate on DCUM!
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:18     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote: Because it's about more than you you you and how great and capable you are.


This isn't what we'd say to someone who just couldn't do something else. We wouldn't say, "You're right, you can't. Only I can."

Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:15     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Because it's about more than you you you and how great and capable you are.
Anonymous
Post 04/20/2012 16:12     Subject: s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am reading these abortion thread in tears. (Blame the 12 week hormones.) I cannot believe the number of women who are caviler about aborting a baby with downs, spina bifida, etc. My sister (in another part of the country) has an amazing little girl with spina bifida. This little girl is so smart (top reading group!), gorgeous, and has lots of friends. She is a speed demon in her wheelchair and will probably be doing backflips in her wheelchair soon. This is a kid that the doctors encouraged them to abort because of the "low quality of life"!!! There have been some challenging times for the family - 5 significant surgeries, 4 of which I flew out to be there for my sister. BUT, its not nearly as bad as people from the outside might think or imagine. My niece is just like any other 1st grade girl - she just so happens to need a wheelchair to play and has some (manageable!) extra medical needs. We are not a religious family, but I am so proud and grateful that my sister choose life for my niece!!!

My sister recently linked on FB to this blog of another SB family. It has stuck with me, esp this part:

"We have such a double standard going. We pat our kids on the head and tell them that they should be nice to the little kid in the wheelchair. Don't stare at the little girl bouncing on her toes trying to fly. Don't point at the little boy who looks a little different. Be nice. Be friendly. Just don't you dare be my child.

. . . .

If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

http://thelittlekingsley.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-not-that-bad.html



OP - you make it sound like it was nothing at all to get your niece to the point she is now. My guess - it was a very long, hard, sometimes lonely, sometimes desperate, sometimes hopeless journey. Looking in from the outside on the other side of the country it's very easy to quip about how insignificant your sister, your niece, and her family's struggle really was and will continue to be, what a non-issue her disability is, etc.


Not to make light of what her sis went thru, but, really, so what? As I said in a post above, most people here are highly capable, resourceful, smart, intelligent, creative. . do amazing things in their personal and professional lives. . have done amazing thigns in their personal and professional lives. . .why then crumble in front of this one particular issue? if it were something else, most people would be charging forward and saying, "Lemme at it! I can do this! Outta my way!" Why is this such a cause for otherwise brave, smart, capable, competent, resourceful, monied people to reduce themselves to sniveling bowls of jelly???
\

(And, furthermore, why is it ok for everyone else to say, "There, there, of course you can't." When, in everything else in life, we say, "OF course you can! Chin up! Don't let anything get in your way! Full speed ahead" Why is laudable to apply this attitude to most things we have all faced in our lives (school, career, relationships, gosh, even working out for heaven's sakes) and yet: "Have a disabled child?? No way!! You poor dear! You couldn't. Just walk away. You can't.") Geez, I know this is simplistic, but in everything esle in life, we are told the ol' Nike slogan, "JUST DO IT." Why can't we just do it with THIS, ladies????)