Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 13:31     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...


Sorry, but it's not working for you.


Please explain why. I feel like "the haters" have strong opinions that the "softer" parenting is not working, but not providing examples or advice on now to nip a tantrum in the bud for the kids who inherently challenge and push limits. Do you use spank? Take away more toys? How does that not lead to more anger and drama? At least in the short run, which is what we are talking about. In the long run, of course the child learns the parent means business and tantrums aren't worth it, but how do you teach the lesson to start. Especially for the more persistent, intense, emotional kids???

And what is wrong with empathetic approaches??


Do. They need to know someone is in charge and it’s not them. Otherwise they are anxious. When you try to empathize you empower them and that is what they simultaneously want and fear. It makes them a mess.
What helps for us is to say ‘in our family everyone does x’. In our family we don’t throw toys. In our family we help out by cleaning. Everyone has a role to play in our family and they must be helpers.


What you are doing is empathy. Saying "kids need to feel that someone is in charge and that it's not on them, or they will feel anxious" is empathy. It's understanding what may be causing your child's meltdown and responding in an age and developmentally appropriate way. And making activities family activities instead of creating rules and punishments that only apply to kids is empathy, too -- it's showing them that you are in it with them, that these are not rules from on high but part of a positive way of living that you will share with them. You are describing a soft, collaborative, gentle parenting style.

Being an empathetic parent doesn't mean being a pushover. And it definitely doesn't mean setting aside your role as protector, provider, and guide for your child. But it does mean letting go of your ego and viewing your child as a whole person. It means if they scream and throw a toy, you can validate the feeling they are having ("I know it's frustrating to share with your brother") while also guiding and explaining how their behavior must improve ("but throwing toys is dangerous to people and can cause damage to things, so I need you to find another way to express your frustration). This, yes, empowers them. But it empowers them to understand and make better choices. Even better if you provide alternatives ("When I'm frustrated, I go outside and move my body around and it gets the frustration out!") and help them get there.

Being empathetic is not the same as putting your child in charge. Empowering your child doesn't mean giving up your role as parent. You can do both of these things in a way that allows your child to trust and follow your guidance.


By your definition then anything can be empathy parenting, even yelling or spanking. I think that is a lot of flowery language that is not very useful. The difference is child centered vs family centered parenting. Larlo is having a tantrum that is ruining dinner for everyone. Larlo gets removed to time out alone until they can be calm. Family does not sit down with larlo to discuss his feelings or what went wrong. That just confuses pre schoolers. Family keeps doing stuff that needs to get done and larlo rejoins when ready. Wash rinse repeat. Elevating the irrational emotions and tantrums of 4 yo to the level of ‘let’s discuss this and change your mind’ creates attention and drama that disrupts the family routine is a recipe for disaster.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:41     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...


Sorry, but it's not working for you.


Please explain why. I feel like "the haters" have strong opinions that the "softer" parenting is not working, but not providing examples or advice on now to nip a tantrum in the bud for the kids who inherently challenge and push limits. Do you use spank? Take away more toys? How does that not lead to more anger and drama? At least in the short run, which is what we are talking about. In the long run, of course the child learns the parent means business and tantrums aren't worth it, but how do you teach the lesson to start. Especially for the more persistent, intense, emotional kids???

And what is wrong with empathetic approaches??


Do. They need to know someone is in charge and it’s not them. Otherwise they are anxious. When you try to empathize you empower them and that is what they simultaneously want and fear. It makes them a mess.
What helps for us is to say ‘in our family everyone does x’. In our family we don’t throw toys. In our family we help out by cleaning. Everyone has a role to play in our family and they must be helpers.


What you are doing is empathy. Saying "kids need to feel that someone is in charge and that it's not on them, or they will feel anxious" is empathy. It's understanding what may be causing your child's meltdown and responding in an age and developmentally appropriate way. And making activities family activities instead of creating rules and punishments that only apply to kids is empathy, too -- it's showing them that you are in it with them, that these are not rules from on high but part of a positive way of living that you will share with them. You are describing a soft, collaborative, gentle parenting style.

Being an empathetic parent doesn't mean being a pushover. And it definitely doesn't mean setting aside your role as protector, provider, and guide for your child. But it does mean letting go of your ego and viewing your child as a whole person. It means if they scream and throw a toy, you can validate the feeling they are having ("I know it's frustrating to share with your brother") while also guiding and explaining how their behavior must improve ("but throwing toys is dangerous to people and can cause damage to things, so I need you to find another way to express your frustration). This, yes, empowers them. But it empowers them to understand and make better choices. Even better if you provide alternatives ("When I'm frustrated, I go outside and move my body around and it gets the frustration out!") and help them get there.

Being empathetic is not the same as putting your child in charge. Empowering your child doesn't mean giving up your role as parent. You can do both of these things in a way that allows your child to trust and follow your guidance.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:25     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
my kid is 4 and 2 months. Your kid is normal. My SIL said my niece had similar attitude issues right at the end of 3 and first bit of 4. My kid was worse the couple of months leading up to 4 and seems to be getting a bit better now a few months later. It has also corresponded with a noticeable leap in thinking processes and conversational abilities. We try to just hold the line and stay neutral when she's having a tantrum because the food isn't the right shape or whatever the current issue of the moment is. Throwing things we give a warning for and then the thrown item gets taken away.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:13     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...


Sorry, but it's not working for you.


Please explain why. I feel like "the haters" have strong opinions that the "softer" parenting is not working, but not providing examples or advice on now to nip a tantrum in the bud for the kids who inherently challenge and push limits. Do you use spank? Take away more toys? How does that not lead to more anger and drama? At least in the short run, which is what we are talking about. In the long run, of course the child learns the parent means business and tantrums aren't worth it, but how do you teach the lesson to start. Especially for the more persistent, intense, emotional kids???

And what is wrong with empathetic approaches??


Do. They need to know someone is in charge and it’s not them. Otherwise they are anxious. When you try to empathize you empower them and that is what they simultaneously want and fear. It makes them a mess.
What helps for us is to say ‘in our family everyone does x’. In our family we don’t throw toys. In our family we help out by cleaning. Everyone has a role to play in our family and they must be helpers.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:04     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:I am sorry, but this is not "normal" and it doesn't happen with all or even majority of children (especially if past generations are taken into account). It might be common in a certain type of family but it's reprehensible behavior that should not be allowed (if only because parents dislike it) and would not have happened had there been some discipline in the past.


Ahh the crazy poster with the all knowing universal knowledge of how much better children used to be vs how they are now.

Maybe if you stopped wasting your time on dcum all day trashing daughters and son in laws you could instead have a relationship with some actual grandchildren. At least that’s what we did back in my day.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:45     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Just try rephrasing thing like the snack before dinner example.

"Sorry, Larla. Sbacks aren't on the menu now since dinner will be ready in 15 minutes. Do you want to help me set a timer so we know when dinner is ready?"

*Larla still whines/complains*

"I know, I love snacks. I wish we could snack all the time. Wouldn't that be fun? Draw me a picture of your favorite snacks so I can make sure we buy the right ingredients at the grocery store."

Let go of that mom guilt. Its not your fault, be kind to yourself. In my experience, odd ages are the hardest (1, 3, 5).
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:40     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...


Sorry, but it's not working for you.


Please explain why. I feel like "the haters" have strong opinions that the "softer" parenting is not working, but not providing examples or advice on now to nip a tantrum in the bud for the kids who inherently challenge and push limits.


Why? Because, right there you lost and she won. This was the "boundaries test" that everybody keeps talking about and you failed it - even if you won the particular tantrum battle. Those feelings are the bud you are supposed to nip. Feelings are not sacred; by making them such you support a child in thrall of her wants.


NP but this is so weird. Do you spank your kids and tell them they can’t talk? I mean, if I yell at my kid he gets scared but also more defiant, and then tells me I hurt his feelings and made him sad. Why would I do that? I don’t “let” him throw tantrums in public, and if he’s throwing one at home I send him to his room and physically carry him there if I have to. When he’s calm/cried it out we talk about what went wrong. I think that is what PP described essentially. I’m not sure what the alternative is, aside from beating your children which I don’t believe in.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:37     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Boyfriend has a 3 year old - splits custody 50/50 with his narcissist ex gf. The kid throws tantrums all the time, talks back, and generally thinks the world revolves around him. Serious question - why did any of you have children and do you regret it? Because I legit do not understand what the benefits are. Please don't crucify me lol


Lol. My 3 year old can be challenging at times, but this morning she gave me three hugs while I dropped her off at school and told me the third one was to take home and give to daddy. She rarely has meltdowns anymore and when she does, we don't have much trouble riding them out and figuring out what's really going on. She's a joyful, empathetic, kind, emotive small person and the light of my life.

Kids are like pretty much everything else worthwhile in life -- you get out what you put in. I feel bad for your boyfriend's son, that he seems to have so many selfish adults in his life who view him has a burden and inconvenience and don't support him the way he needs to learn out to emotionally regulate. Small children deserve to have their immediate world (their parents) revolve around them somewhat. Your BF and his ex brought that child into he world and HE IS 3 and is not getting the attention and help he needs. No wonder he melts down all the time and demands attention. That poor child. Tell your BF to step up and start parenting and maybe excuse yourself from the situation if you don't want to be around a small kid. Because it's not that kid's fault he exists. Go find someone who isn't a dad if that's your MO.


Lol that response wasn't crucifying me? Hahahaha! I feel bad for my BF. That he has to essentially raise a child with a woman who clearly only cares about herself. My BF is kind, attentive and a good father. For what its worth - I was very much involved with my netphews and nieces when they were at this age, and they did not act like this child. He tortures his dog - chases and ties him up. He says 'no' to anything and everything he doesn't want to do. Throws screaming crying fits nearly every day. He is an a$$hole. Now you can cricify me.


But the kid is 3 and has an unstable home life. That is sad. He may be a tiny sociopath in the making sure, but more likely he is crying out for attention. That is legitimately really sad. My son used to get sooo happy when he saw my husband and I snuggling - please understand at that age, his parents are his whole world. I can’t imagine what a number it would do on my toddlers if we split up. If you cannot handle it, please don’t date someone with a child.

I admit I don’t like other people’s kids and never loved kids but I love my two kiddos. Like, my three year old can be a gaslighting a-hole sometimes (I’m not hungry! I want to eat!) but he’s also so funny, sweet and loving.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:07     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Boyfriend has a 3 year old - splits custody 50/50 with his narcissist ex gf. The kid throws tantrums all the time, talks back, and generally thinks the world revolves around him. Serious question - why did any of you have children and do you regret it? Because I legit do not understand what the benefits are. Please don't crucify me lol


Lol. My 3 year old can be challenging at times, but this morning she gave me three hugs while I dropped her off at school and told me the third one was to take home and give to daddy. She rarely has meltdowns anymore and when she does, we don't have much trouble riding them out and figuring out what's really going on. She's a joyful, empathetic, kind, emotive small person and the light of my life.

Kids are like pretty much everything else worthwhile in life -- you get out what you put in. I feel bad for your boyfriend's son, that he seems to have so many selfish adults in his life who view him has a burden and inconvenience and don't support him the way he needs to learn out to emotionally regulate. Small children deserve to have their immediate world (their parents) revolve around them somewhat. Your BF and his ex brought that child into he world and HE IS 3 and is not getting the attention and help he needs. No wonder he melts down all the time and demands attention. That poor child. Tell your BF to step up and start parenting and maybe excuse yourself from the situation if you don't want to be around a small kid. Because it's not that kid's fault he exists. Go find someone who isn't a dad if that's your MO.


Lol that response wasn't crucifying me? Hahahaha! I feel bad for my BF. That he has to essentially raise a child with a woman who clearly only cares about herself. My BF is kind, attentive and a good father. For what its worth - I was very much involved with my netphews and nieces when they were at this age, and they did not act like this child. He tortures his dog - chases and ties him up. He says 'no' to anything and everything he doesn't want to do. Throws screaming crying fits nearly every day. He is an a$$hole. Now you can cricify me.


If the dog is in your house or your BFs house it needs to be rehomed. JFC you dont let a kid do that to an animal. If your BF is letting him then he isnt a good parent. Point blank.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:59     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Boyfriend has a 3 year old - splits custody 50/50 with his narcissist ex gf. The kid throws tantrums all the time, talks back, and generally thinks the world revolves around him. Serious question - why did any of you have children and do you regret it? Because I legit do not understand what the benefits are. Please don't crucify me lol


Lol. My 3 year old can be challenging at times, but this morning she gave me three hugs while I dropped her off at school and told me the third one was to take home and give to daddy. She rarely has meltdowns anymore and when she does, we don't have much trouble riding them out and figuring out what's really going on. She's a joyful, empathetic, kind, emotive small person and the light of my life.

Kids are like pretty much everything else worthwhile in life -- you get out what you put in. I feel bad for your boyfriend's son, that he seems to have so many selfish adults in his life who view him has a burden and inconvenience and don't support him the way he needs to learn out to emotionally regulate. Small children deserve to have their immediate world (their parents) revolve around them somewhat. Your BF and his ex brought that child into he world and HE IS 3 and is not getting the attention and help he needs. No wonder he melts down all the time and demands attention. That poor child. Tell your BF to step up and start parenting and maybe excuse yourself from the situation if you don't want to be around a small kid. Because it's not that kid's fault he exists. Go find someone who isn't a dad if that's your MO.


Lol that response wasn't crucifying me? Hahahaha! I feel bad for my BF. That he has to essentially raise a child with a woman who clearly only cares about herself. My BF is kind, attentive and a good father. For what its worth - I was very much involved with my netphews and nieces when they were at this age, and they did not act like this child. He tortures his dog - chases and ties him up. He says 'no' to anything and everything he doesn't want to do. Throws screaming crying fits nearly every day. He is an a$$hole. Now you can cricify me.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:59     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
The important thing is to understand that a three year old's brain simply doesn't work like an adult's brain. Things that are common sense for you aren't for a three year old.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:47     Subject: Re:My 3 year old is a brat
I couldn't read all the comments OP because it turned into a weird fight between posters but I really do think much of what you describe is normal and it can be so frustrating. I just wanted to share that you may really like the course from Big Little Feelings. It will give you a lot of tools for responding to this behavior which again is very common in 3 year olds. It's not because she's a brat, it's because she is 3 and trying to figure out how to navigate the world and her feelings etc. Your job isn't necessarily to control the behavior, but to help get her to the next stage being able to recognize her feelings, help herself calm (this takes time!), understand and empathize with others needs and feelings etc. It's a lot of work and exhausting. but it will get you farther later than the posters who just want you to I guess throw her in time out
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:35     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:Boyfriend has a 3 year old - splits custody 50/50 with his narcissist ex gf. The kid throws tantrums all the time, talks back, and generally thinks the world revolves around him. Serious question - why did any of you have children and do you regret it? Because I legit do not understand what the benefits are. Please don't crucify me lol


Lol. My 3 year old can be challenging at times, but this morning she gave me three hugs while I dropped her off at school and told me the third one was to take home and give to daddy. She rarely has meltdowns anymore and when she does, we don't have much trouble riding them out and figuring out what's really going on. She's a joyful, empathetic, kind, emotive small person and the light of my life.

Kids are like pretty much everything else worthwhile in life -- you get out what you put in. I feel bad for your boyfriend's son, that he seems to have so many selfish adults in his life who view him has a burden and inconvenience and don't support him the way he needs to learn out to emotionally regulate. Small children deserve to have their immediate world (their parents) revolve around them somewhat. Your BF and his ex brought that child into he world and HE IS 3 and is not getting the attention and help he needs. No wonder he melts down all the time and demands attention. That poor child. Tell your BF to step up and start parenting and maybe excuse yourself from the situation if you don't want to be around a small kid. Because it's not that kid's fault he exists. Go find someone who isn't a dad if that's your MO.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:26     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Boyfriend has a 3 year old - splits custody 50/50 with his narcissist ex gf. The kid throws tantrums all the time, talks back, and generally thinks the world revolves around him. Serious question - why did any of you have children and do you regret it? Because I legit do not understand what the benefits are. Please don't crucify me lol
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2012 17:28     Subject: My 3 year old is a brat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I see it as it's the actions as what you want to nip, not the feelings. Feelings are what they are and can be intense, and I see validating them as helps give the child language and understanding so that next time he/she can exert control over them.


No, it's actually feelings you want to nip - not all feelings obviously, but inappropriate, undesirable feelings that we are currently discussing. Feelings can be changed and suppressed, and there is nothing special or authentic about them. It is by suppressing them that you exert control, not by dwelling on them or talking about them. In fact, the more you dwell on them, the more you prime them and the more you are their prisoner.

Anonymous wrote:Just someone who's parent attempted to do a lot of nipping, and who has a great deal of anger issues today. I wish I'd had more help processing my intense feelings as a kid.


It is very unlikely that the issues you have today have anything to do with your parents or their supposed suppression of your feelings. Most likely, you have a certain type of temperament, which first announced itself when you were little but is visible today. Please, do not blame your parents, they are not going to be around forever. Try to be as forgiving of them as you are probably of your children especially now when they are older.


I disagree with this 100%. I apparently had a very easy-going temprament as a child, and I still do as an adult.

However, by teaching me to surpress and ignore my negative feelings (anger, sadness, disappointment, fear) in order to be compliant, my parents created a whole bunch of other issues, including some that are anger-related. I've worked very hard to address them, and I aim to be a better parent who can teach my children to feel the full range of feelings AND behave properly. It does not need to be either/or.