Anonymous
03/19/2012 14:37
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
This is 12:27/12:33. Thank you, 13:35, for the link. I don't have a reference handy (I could try and dig it up later), but I had read something that suggested quite the opposite: that bright students excelled at all kinds of schools. This seemed right to me on an intuitive level, given how many self-taught or very minimally schooled geniuses grew up on the American frontier, for example. And I personally know several very smart people who went to terrible schools and nevertheless excelled.
In the case of this report, my immediate thought was that a lot of the stats being quoted are a matter of correlation rather than causation. Some statements in the report itself seem to bear that out:
"While a small portion of high-poverty schools that have charismatic principals and especially dedicated teachers have proven to be successful, the overwhelming majority of high-poverty schools struggle."
and
"Most everything that educators talk about as desirable in a school—high standards, good teachers, active parents, adequate resources, a safe and orderly environment, a stable student and teacher population—are more likely to be found in middle-class schools than in schools with high concentrations of poverty."
So, in other words, if a school with a poor population is blessed with a high-caliber principal, good teachers and/or more active parents, for example, the academic disparities are mostly or entirely erased.
In the case of this report, my immediate thought was that a lot of the stats being quoted are a matter of correlation rather than causation. Some statements in the report itself seem to bear that out:
"While a small portion of high-poverty schools that have charismatic principals and especially dedicated teachers have proven to be successful, the overwhelming majority of high-poverty schools struggle."
and
"Most everything that educators talk about as desirable in a school—high standards, good teachers, active parents, adequate resources, a safe and orderly environment, a stable student and teacher population—are more likely to be found in middle-class schools than in schools with high concentrations of poverty."
So, in other words, if a school with a poor population is blessed with a high-caliber principal, good teachers and/or more active parents, for example, the academic disparities are mostly or entirely erased.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 14:01
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:Why would charters have a higher percentage of high-performing kids (if that is indeed true)? They are open to all residents on an equal basis, and most are not in the tony parts of town. [/quote
Not all of them do. A select few of them (Latin, Yu Ying, IT) have a strong appeal to families with more resources and options.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 13:35
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:PP here, with a p.s. Does it really make a big difference in the early years if your bright kid has two vs, ten high-achieving classmates? I had read that studies had shown that bright kids do well regardless of the context.
http://tcf.org/publications/pdfs/pb571/kahlenbergsoa6-15-06.pdf
The highly regarded Coleman Report of the 1960s found that, after the influence of the family, the socioeconomic status of a school is the single most important determinant of a student’s academic success. The basic findings of the report—that all children do better in middle-class schools—have been affirmed again and again in the research literature. In 2005, for example, University of California professor Russell Rumberger and his colleague Gregory J. Palardy found that a school’s socioeconomic status had as much impact on the achievement growth of high school students as a student’s individual economic status.
Throughout history and throughout time, low-income students typically have performed less well academically than middle-class children, but there is a striking exception: low-income students attending middle-class schools perform better, on average, than middle-class students in high-poverty schools. Scores from the 2005 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) among fourth-grade students in math indicate that low-income students in more affluent schools score eight points higher (more than half a grade level) than middle-class students in high-poverty schools.
All students—low income and middle class—perform relatively poorly in high-poverty schools, but are middle-class students hurt by the presence of some low-income students in majority middle-class schools? The evidence suggests that they are not. Research finds that the numerical majority of students set the tone in a school; so long as concentrations of poverty do not reach above the 50 percent level, the academic achievement of middle-class students does not decline. Research also finds that middle-class students, on average, are less affected (for good or ill) by school environment than low-income students.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 13:25
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
12:27, first year charter schools are rarely able to fill all slots in all classes so to some degree you get a self-selected group of families.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 13:15
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:PP here, with a p.s. Does it really make a big difference in the early years if your bright kid has two vs, ten high-achieving classmates? I had read that studies had shown that bright kids do well regardless of the context.
What does this question have to do with this topic?
Anonymous
03/19/2012 12:33
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
PP here, with a p.s. Does it really make a big difference in the early years if your bright kid has two vs, ten high-achieving classmates? I had read that studies had shown that bright kids do well regardless of the context.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 12:27
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Why would charters have a higher percentage of high-performing kids (if that is indeed true)? They are open to all residents on an equal basis, and most are not in the tony parts of town.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 12:05
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to the person who came back to elaborate on the contrast between her experience at new charters and a DCPS school (forgot to note the time stamp, and I don't feel like wading back through all the infighting to find it again right now). Thanks also to everyone else who contributed relevant comments.
Having digested all of them and visited a handful of DCPSs and new charters this winter, I think I'm personally more willing to deal with the opportunities and pitfalls at a decent DCPS rather than take the plunge with a new charter. I could barely get through all the sniping that emerged on this thread; if I had to deal with this kind of thing (or even a fraction of it) on a daily basis at a school still trying to figure out every little thing, I'd be ready to pull my hair out after a week!
OP, please don't give up on Charters based on one bad apple. Only one school is producing these issues. There are several very good charters that don't have this type of strife.
It's actually a great apple! The downside of attracting high-performing children from high-expectation families is that it's a highly demanding situation. This school is comparable to a private school in many ways - and "parent management" is one of them. Have a look at the private schools forum to see what you're wading into. Hyper-competitive...
At the end of the day, there are only a handful of schools in the country that offer this kind of experience. Plus, the vast majority of families are wonderful. Good luck to you, OP.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 11:48
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to the person who came back to elaborate on the contrast between her experience at new charters and a DCPS school (forgot to note the time stamp, and I don't feel like wading back through all the infighting to find it again right now). Thanks also to everyone else who contributed relevant comments.
Having digested all of them and visited a handful of DCPSs and new charters this winter, I think I'm personally more willing to deal with the opportunities and pitfalls at a decent DCPS rather than take the plunge with a new charter. I could barely get through all the sniping that emerged on this thread; if I had to deal with this kind of thing (or even a fraction of it) on a daily basis at a school still trying to figure out every little thing, I'd be ready to pull my hair out after a week!
I'm a parent at a first year charter (IT) and I don't see sniping. Or if there is, I'm not involved. I focus on my child and classroom and ignore the politics. I see much more potential for change and excellence at the charters than I do at the DCPS. With leadership IN THE BUILDING, it's easy for changes to be made and voices to be heard. Not so much for a system as populated, historic, and expansive as the DC Public Schools.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 11:44
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to the person who came back to elaborate on the contrast between her experience at new charters and a DCPS school (forgot to note the time stamp, and I don't feel like wading back through all the infighting to find it again right now). Thanks also to everyone else who contributed relevant comments.
Having digested all of them and visited a handful of DCPSs and new charters this winter, I think I'm personally more willing to deal with the opportunities and pitfalls at a decent DCPS rather than take the plunge with a new charter. I could barely get through all the sniping that emerged on this thread; if I had to deal with this kind of thing (or even a fraction of it) on a daily basis at a school still trying to figure out every little thing, I'd be ready to pull my hair out after a week!
OP, please don't give up on Charters based on one bad apple. Only one school is producing these issues. There are several very good charters that don't have this type of strife.
+1
Anonymous
03/19/2012 11:40
Subject: What's it like to be in a new charter school in its first year?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to the person who came back to elaborate on the contrast between her experience at new charters and a DCPS school (forgot to note the time stamp, and I don't feel like wading back through all the infighting to find it again right now). Thanks also to everyone else who contributed relevant comments.
Having digested all of them and visited a handful of DCPSs and new charters this winter, I think I'm personally more willing to deal with the opportunities and pitfalls at a decent DCPS rather than take the plunge with a new charter. I could barely get through all the sniping that emerged on this thread; if I had to deal with this kind of thing (or even a fraction of it) on a daily basis at a school still trying to figure out every little thing, I'd be ready to pull my hair out after a week!
OP, please don't give up on Charters based on one bad apple. Only one school is producing these issues. There are several very good charters that don't have this type of strife.