Here is the rub, none of us want our kids to receive an poor education, most of us in fact believe our children are entitled to receive an excellent education and will fight and sacrifice and maneuver and do whatever the hell we can do it. Most of us that are middle class have numerous resources to do this. Poor and working class parents of any race do not have the same social capital, economic resources or experience. So the not so subtle question is in a school with more of the later group of parents does it weak the opportunities for a a middle class dd. Ideally it is not a zero sum game, but most of us fear that is once number reach beyond 10-15%. However that leaves the poor screwed. So you can just help perpetuate a permanent underclass, advocate for a system that puts lots and I mean lots more resources into these kids and this may affect your DD or maybe you just rant on this board. The fundamental reality is though that these kids are not going to go away and even the crappy jobs they might have been able to get are going away so I am not sure what they are going to do long term.

Anonymous wrote:Overheard conversation at a recent assembly at my daughter's elementary school. The child said to her mother that performance was a "hot mess" and the mother said in the affirmative you're right.

The child couldn't have been no older than 6.

OK, I'll bite. I'm white. What is meant by, " a hot mess" ?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Statistically according to national studies most white middle class parents seek schools with no more than 20% minorities. Frankly how that is possible given demographic shifts I cant fathom, but that is what I heard in documentaries. Personally I look for my white kid to represent about 30% of the school meaning she will be one of 3-4 other white kids in the class. I have done less and it has not been an easy experience as much an issue of class as otherwise but kids see and act on race more often than we like to think.

As a white person who is very happy living in a very mixed neighborhood in DC, I'm going to state the obvious. It's not about race, it's about SES. I'm totally fine with my child not being in the racial majority at her school (which is YY and has no racial majority, but at this point might have a white plurality). I think the ethnic diversity is a huge strength for the community and for her education. To be perfectly honest though, the relatively high SES of the school increases my comfort level. I'd rather my child go to school with well-mannered children from educated families of any and every racial/ethnic/religious/gay-bi-trans/etc. background, than other children of her own race who might be from broken homes, saddled with low expectations, behavioral problems, unstable and unsafe home lives, etc.

That was probably terribly politically incorrect. Nonetheless, my child's school is one of many things I'm thankful for today.

Agreed

Oy. I can't even tell who's arguing what against whom about what any more. I'm pretty sure everyone's in admiration of the Little Rock Nine, but the relationship back to public school in DC escapes me. I guess I'm not smart enough to connect the dots?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you're still using your children as a means to remedy social injustice. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. My first obligation is to my kids - to provide them with the best experience possible.

But that's the rub, isn't it? One person's palliative is another's poison. Our DD is at a DCPS elementary that we never would've considered 10 years ago. 5 years ago? Maybe. Now there's a critical mass of parents (and new staff). At what point are you sacrificing your child on the altar of Political Correctness, and when does that become a rich, multicultural experience?

Your argument is a fatuous one, because it assumes that PP's children are being harmed in order to make the world a better place. Frankly, there's a history of parents who've participated in progressive movements and, yes, those parent's have involved their children. And those kids have turned out a fuck sight better than their coddled, wastrel peers.

Who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine

"Little Rock Central High, selected on the criteria of excellent grades and attendance."

How odd that these kids were fighting to get a good education. You are actually fighting (using your kid as a weapon) to get a bad education, and feeling so righteous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you're still using your children as a means to remedy social injustice. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. My first obligation is to my kids - to provide them with the best experience possible.

But that's the rub, isn't it? One person's palliative is another's poison. Our DD is at a DCPS elementary that we never would've considered 10 years ago. 5 years ago? Maybe. Now there's a critical mass of parents (and new staff). At what point are you sacrificing your child on the altar of Political Correctness, and when does that become a rich, multicultural experience?

Your argument is a fatuous one, because it assumes that PP's children are being harmed in order to make the world a better place. Frankly, there's a history of parents who've participated in progressive movements and, yes, those parent's have involved their children. And those kids have turned out a fuck sight better than their coddled, wastrel peers.

Who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you're still using your children as a means to remedy social injustice. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. My first obligation is to my kids - to provide them with the best experience possible.

But that's the rub, isn't it? One person's palliative is another's poison. Our DD is at a DCPS elementary that we never would've considered 10 years ago. 5 years ago? Maybe. Now there's a critical mass of parents (and new staff). At what point are you sacrificing your child on the altar of Political Correctness, and when does that become a rich, multicultural experience?

Your argument is a fatuous one, because it assumes that PP's children are being harmed in order to make the world a better place. Frankly, there's a history of parents who've participated in progressive movements and, yes, those parent's have involved their children. And those kids have turned out a fuck sight better than their coddled, wastrel peers.

Who?

My son is a preschooler at Payne. It is a majority black, majority FARM school. The school is about 97% AA. We are white. There are a few other white kids in his class. I am providing him with a wonderful experience. We have been welcomed by everyone at the school. I have never experienced racism towards me. My son (because he's a hugger) has to hug about 10 teachers and staff before he leaves every day. I don't think we are trail blazers or a social experiment. I'm just sending my kid to our great neighborhood school. The principal is fantastic. I would encourage parents looking for a quality preschool program to visit the school. I also don't get why everyone thinks its OK to want their kid to be separated from poor people. Like it's just fine to talk bad about poor people.

There are some white and asian families at Walker Jones too. I was with one today and they are very happy with the school.

Anonymous wrote:you're still using your children as a means to remedy social injustice. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. My first obligation is to my kids - to provide them with the best experience possible.

But that's the rub, isn't it? One person's palliative is another's poison. Our DD is at a DCPS elementary that we never would've considered 10 years ago. 5 years ago? Maybe. Now there's a critical mass of parents (and new staff). At what point are you sacrificing your child on the altar of Political Correctness, and when does that become a rich, multicultural experience?

Your argument is a fatuous one, because it assumes that PP's children are being harmed in order to make the world a better place. Frankly, there's a history of parents who've participated in progressive movements and, yes, those parent's have involved their children. And those kids have turned out a fuck sight better than their coddled, wastrel peers.

or go to a charter and take your chances with whoever else gets in the lottery with you.

Anonymous wrote:The community of schools with majority poor kids consists of parents of these kids, and whatever else is around these schools. Not middleclass parents across town. Maybe you should direct your requests to help to the right community.

Then what is the whole point of this thread? Everyone can just send their kids to their community school and be done with it. Also, DCPS can do away with the out of boundary option.

Anonymous wrote:

And yet we are very not. Because regardless of color or national origin, we share the following characteristics: everyone has a graduate degree, at least. Everyone speaks 2+ languages. Everyone has traveled to dozens of countries. Everyone has gone to a handful of top universities internationally. Everyone is highly literate. Most people come from solid families that cared about education. Many come from their country elites.

Really? The people who clean your offices, answer the phones, maintain your computers, schedule your travel, etc. all are multilingual, well-traveled holders of graduate degrees who are products of their country elites?

More likely, those people are invisible to you. If you're trying to prove the point that you (and perhaps your coworkers) are elitist D-bags - congratulations, you're doing a bang-up jub.

I don't know who cleans my office. They come after hours and they are vendors, not staff. Our computer people are contractors who work for their own bosses. Our department program assistant who answers phones speaks four languages. We schedule our own travel. Actually, program assistant jobs at the WB are very competitive. They get hundreds of applications when they advertise, so they can pick multilingual master degree holders.

And we are hardly the only stratified workplace in this town. I doubt that attorneys who post in this forum include their firm paralegals and receptionists in the royal 'we'. Perhaps I should have made it really clear by qualifying this as "WB professional staff."

And yet we are very not. Because regardless of color or national origin, we share the following characteristics: everyone has a graduate degree, at least. Everyone speaks 2+ languages. Everyone has traveled to dozens of countries. Everyone has gone to a handful of top universities internationally. Everyone is highly literate. Most people come from solid families that cared about education. Many come from their country elites.

Really? The people who clean your offices, answer the phones, maintain your computers, schedule your travel, etc. all are multilingual, well-traveled holders of graduate degrees who are products of their country elites?

More likely, those people are invisible to you. If you're trying to prove the point that you (and perhaps your coworkers) are elitist D-bags - congratulations, you're doing a bang-up jub.

Is it not possible to advocate for your children and your community at the same time? In a school system with so much choice it is not necessary to take the harder road of trying to advocate for both, that is definitely true. Too bad for the poor and disadvantaged - all these choices were supposedly meant to help them, yet from reading these posts it seems like it just gives more advantaged families more opportunities to turn a blind eye to society's problems without actually having to move to a new community.

OK, you win. You are a better person than I. You have more of a social conscience. You are a credit to Dr. King's legacy. The reincarnation of the Dali Lama, even.

But you're still using your children as a means to remedy social injustice. In my opinion, that's ridiculous. My first obligation is to my kids - to provide them with the best experience possible. (Note: that's not a lily-white, rich private school, BTW - my kids go to a charter in the city where they're in the minority, but it's a great school, and they're friends with kids from all different SES. And we're not without options.) But that's not what you're talking about - you're talking about doing what is best for the community, despite the fact that it may not be what is best for your kids.

So while you may be a better person, you're a worse parent. At the very least, a more irresponsible one.

The community of schools with majority poor kids consists of parents of these kids, and whatever else is around these schools. Not middleclass parents across town. Maybe you should direct your requests to help to the right community.