Crunchiness is next to Godliness. If there is a God, he or she would want us all to be crunchy and preserve the precious planet he/she made for us. God did not give us this planet to abuse its resources and animals. He or she gave it to us to live happily and respect it.

You forgot no tv household.you crunchy folks are so very dull!

Alright, my post was unclear and not specific. I didn't mean to say that every single one of the things OP listed was definitively easier, cheaper, and healthier than the opposite of each and every one of those things. For example, I wish I hadn't followed the intro sentence that said "most of it is cheaper and just healthier and not all that difficult" with my sentence that said "Homebirth, breastfeeding, baby wearing and co-sleeping wasn't really a "choice" for me - they just made sense for me and our children." What I meant by that last sentence was that these things weren't necessarly "cheaper, healthier, and easier" but as I said, they were what made sense for our children and not "chosen" to up my crunchy status.

Of course organic can be more expensive, and the way WE eat vegetarian is absolutely cheaper and absolutely healthier. I maintain that homemade cleaning products are "incredibly easy." I'm not spending hours mixing vinegar and baking soda. I have a few spray bottles and it literally takes me 10 seconds to fill them with vinegar, baking soda, whatever. You could even do it while watching House! (We don't have a TV either - I guess that makes me even more crunchy!).

It is marginally more difficult, I suppose, to have to take a split second to think about whether the can you just used goes in the trash container or the recycling container. It also adds to the difficult marginally that you have to lug TWO containers out to the street instead of just one trash container. But I don't think that excuses not recycling. That's just laziness.

And I don't think I said anything that represented as "fact" instead of opinion in reference to the car - I simply said that we don't have one (which is indeed cheaper...).

We have had the same cloth towels and napkins for years and they look brand new...not "grotty". So I'm not sure what you mean there. And there's a laundry basket in the kitchen, which everything just gets tossed into. Again, a marginal difference.

So I guess I should have said not that these things are "easier" but that they are only marginally less easy. Sorry. I still think they're not adding difficulty to my life in any meaningful way and in some cases, they are definitely cheaper and healthier. Your opinion, I assumed obviously, may differ.

Anonymous wrote:We do most of this stuff, but not because it's a "lifestyle" or because I'm trying to define myself as "crunchy." Most of it is cheaper and just healthier and not all that difficult. Homebirth, breastfeeding, baby wearing and co-sleeping wasn't really a "choice" for me - they just made sense for me and our children. I'm vegetarian I guess as a stand against the meat/animal product industry, but also because it's cheaper and healthier. Same with organic food. Cleaning products are so incredibly easy to make and so much cheaper than buying chemicals anyway. Recycling - duh...why would you not? We don't have battery-operated toys because they're annoying and don't encourage creative play. We don't have a car because we live in the city. Using cloth towels and napkins instead of paper is just about the easiest thing you can do ever for the environment.

The things you listed are really easy, do not require any extra time, and make a big difference in the health of our family and the environment, plus, they're cheaper. Why would you not do these things?

Most of your examples are entirely a matter of opinion as to whether or not they are cheaper and/or healthier.

Homebirth - if you have insurance, cost doesn't matter. If you have complications, your entire cost scenario is out of the window. As to healthier, my opinion (not fact) is that my blissed-out epidural was a lot healthier for me than 6 hours of agony pushing would have been.

Baby wearing - what are you saving on? Stroller? Ask your back whether this is healthier.

Breastfeeding - agree on both counts

Co-sleeping - again, what are you saving on? Cost of crib, sheets and laundering same? You do realize they will need to get their own bed eventually, right? As to healthier, my babe began to sleep through the night only when moved to his own room, so it was definitely healthier for me to not get up five times a night.

Vegetarian - cheaper ok, not sure if healthier. Opinion not fact. Not all meats are bad, and not all vegetables are good.

Organic food cheaper, ha!

Cleaning products - "incredibly easy" is matter of opinion. Why buy and lug loads of vinegar, find containers and waste time for mixing that could have been used for napping or watching another House MD episode?

I don't recycle because I can't be bothered to sort my garbage, so the easier part is not true. It's a lot easier to just have one trash can and toss everything into one container.

Having a car is entirely a matter of philosophy, I personally think it is hard to limit your life to the radius of walking distance, to have to avoid high heels and be forced to rub against random people with their germs and aromas in metro, but that's my philosophy. Don't sell opinion as fact.

I use both paper towels and cloth towels, and both have advantages. Cloth towels have to be laundered plus they get grotty real fast. Again, crumpling up a paper towel and tossing it into the trash can is easier than walking a gross mound of towels to the laundry room, washing and folding.

I do all of those, but my crunchy resume aside, I have all of you beat...

We took down the crib and my baby sleeps in a hammock. When she sleeps at all. But it isn't because I'm crunchy, it's because I'm desperate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...but also because it's cheaper and healthier. Same with organic food....

Uh, you're kidding, right? In urban areas, buying "organic" and buying "local" are both significantly more expensive. For some, especially some with children, those are cost-prohibitive things to do. Yes, you can prioritize them, but when you have a one-income or two lower-income household with children, it can be difficult to make those priorities when you are choosing between those and other things you value for your children.

Using cloth towels and napkins instead of paper is just about the easiest thing you can do ever for the environment.

The things you listed are really easy, do not require any extra time, and make a big difference in the health of our family and the environment, plus, they're cheaper. Why would you not do these things?

As for why people often make other non-eco friendly choices? Convenience and time. For example, we host a lot. A few years ago, we decided to move away from paper plates and plastic utensils and we bought a party set of Corelle that we use. We also bought inexpensive flatware that all lives in one crate that comes out for parties. After the party, we wash it all, repack the crate and put it back in the closet for the next time. We use cloth napkins fo rmany parties. Yes, we only have about 1/3 of the trash after a party than we used to have and aren't dumping in the landfill. But we also use a lot more water for the dishwasher and clothes washer washing napkins and tablecloths instead of throwing disposable tablecloths and napkins in the trash. And after a party, it can easily be an entire load of laundry to clean these things, dry them, fold them and put them away. It also takes us significantly longer to collect, load the dishwasher (and often it's more than one load after a party), unload, repack the dishes and put them away. Now that we have young twins, we'll see how easily we'll be able to do all of this extra cleanup for parties (although we have no entertaining plans in the near future). But it is definitely less convenient and more time consuming. Every family has to prioritize their values and sometimes time is more valuable.

You grabbed onto an error in my post - you're right, organic can be more expensive. I meant that it is healthier (even though I said "cheaper and healthier"). I apologize. I get that people make choices, and healthy food is one choice we choose to spend more on while we cut back in other areas. I stick by the rest of it though. I think your hosting scenario isn't really a good example though for what I was saying. Of course if you're having a bunch of people over for dinner, that's going to up the inconvenience. For daily use, cloth napkins and real plates are not significantly more difficult and we don't do any "extra" wash loads for the napkins - they go in and get folded with our regular wash and get folded.

Crunchy people first the rest will follow (we promise)

Anonymous wrote:...but also because it's cheaper and healthier. Same with organic food....

Uh, you're kidding, right? In urban areas, buying "organic" and buying "local" are both significantly more expensive. For some, especially some with children, those are cost-prohibitive things to do. Yes, you can prioritize them, but when you have a one-income or two lower-income household with children, it can be difficult to make those priorities when you are choosing between those and other things you value for your children.

Using cloth towels and napkins instead of paper is just about the easiest thing you can do ever for the environment.

The things you listed are really easy, do not require any extra time, and make a big difference in the health of our family and the environment, plus, they're cheaper. Why would you not do these things?

As for why people often make other non-eco friendly choices? Convenience and time. For example, we host a lot. A few years ago, we decided to move away from paper plates and plastic utensils and we bought a party set of Corelle that we use. We also bought inexpensive flatware that all lives in one crate that comes out for parties. After the party, we wash it all, repack the crate and put it back in the closet for the next time. We use cloth napkins fo rmany parties. Yes, we only have about 1/3 of the trash after a party than we used to have and aren't dumping in the landfill. But we also use a lot more water for the dishwasher and clothes washer washing napkins and tablecloths instead of throwing disposable tablecloths and napkins in the trash. And after a party, it can easily be an entire load of laundry to clean these things, dry them, fold them and put them away. It also takes us significantly longer to collect, load the dishwasher (and often it's more than one load after a party), unload, repack the dishes and put them away. Now that we have young twins, we'll see how easily we'll be able to do all of this extra cleanup for parties (although we have no entertaining plans in the near future). But it is definitely less convenient and more time consuming. Every family has to prioritize their values and sometimes time is more valuable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You left Out a huge one: limiting the number of children you have to replacement level (2) or fewer. It makes most people very uncomfortable to acknowledge the fact that the singlemost 'eco' thing you can do is not overpopulate. All the vegan carless composting you can imagine doesn't even approach the environmental footprint of adding another human to the planet with a life expectancy of 80 years. Really.

That is just stupid. China has one of the worst environmental records of any country, and they severely limit children. It is not "eco" to not have kids. You are essentially limiting the amount of granola babies born. I mean you would instill your crackpot beliefs into your progeny, wouldn't you? It seems that you would want more people raised in this glorious hippie manner.

You don't get it. The carbon impact produced PER PERSON is much smaller in China than in the US in part because of the one child policy.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2009/jul/family-planning-major-environmental-emphasis

I think you misread the article. It is saying that children have an impact on total carbon, not per capita carbon.

It's PER CAPITA:

"When an individual produces a child – and that child potentially produces more descendants in the future – the effect on the environment can be many times the impact produced by a person during their lifetime.

Under current conditions in the U.S., for instance, each child ultimately adds about 9,441 metric tons of carbon dioxide to the carbon legacy of an average parent – about 5.7 times the lifetime emissions for which, on average, a person is responsible."

We do most of this stuff, but not because it's a "lifestyle" or because I'm trying to define myself as "crunchy." Most of it is cheaper and just healthier and not all that difficult. Homebirth, breastfeeding, baby wearing and co-sleeping wasn't really a "choice" for me - they just made sense for me and our children. I'm vegetarian I guess as a stand against the meat/animal product industry, but also because it's cheaper and healthier. Same with organic food. Cleaning products are so incredibly easy to make and so much cheaper than buying chemicals anyway. Recycling - duh...why would you not? We don't have battery-operated toys because they're annoying and don't encourage creative play. We don't have a car because we live in the city. Using cloth towels and napkins instead of paper is just about the easiest thing you can do ever for the environment.

The things you listed are really easy, do not require any extra time, and make a big difference in the health of our family and the environment, plus, they're cheaper. Why would you not do these things?

Breastfeeding (1)
Baby wearing (1)
Cloth diapering (0--we fail on this one; we try hard on other fronts, but just didn't have the bandwidth to cloth diaper)
Organic food (.5)
Vegan/vegetarian (.5--DH and I are Vegan; we give our kids dairy and limited meat)
Recycling (1)
Natural cleaning products (.5)
Avoidance of plastic and/or battery-operated toys (.5 sort of, but not exclusively)
Co-sleeping (1)
Car-free, hybrid car, or car-lite (.5--have a Prius, but also a station wagon)

Family cloth (.5 -- we don't use paper towels, use only cloth for cleaning, but we do use TP)

Veg. gard & composting (.5--some, not enough)
Midwife w/ natural birth (1)

= 8.5

Anonymous wrote:You left Out a huge one: limiting the number of children you have to replacement level (2) or fewer. It makes most people very uncomfortable to acknowledge the fact that the singlemost 'eco' thing you can do is not overpopulate. All the vegan carless composting you can imagine doesn't even approach the environmental footprint of adding another human to the planet with a life expectancy of 80 years. Really.

Totally agree.

this is stupid. In my home country we lived like this because we were poor and didn't have a choice. Why would you want to live like a poor indegent in a 3rd world country.

I don't think you get crunchy points for atheism ... maybe if you are wiccan, tho.

Also, I'm not sure how owning a car counts as "car-lite." Zip-car, maybe. Also, square footage of your home should get points, plus the number of airline flights you take per year (which totally blows my own carbon footprint, as both sets of grandparents live an airline flight away).

DCUM has replaced my www.mothering.com habit.

I do all ten of those, but there's a ton of quizzes like this already online.

http://themoralesfamily.us/granola.htm