Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I do care and put thought on how I dress my daughter... she is a toddler and funny thing is, up until reading this post I hadn't realized so clearly why I do this. She also does not have pierced ears because it is seen as trashy and stereotyped as a poor/ignorant Latino immigrant thing.

Really? I never knew this...

NP here. I read that on another thread. That was news to me, too. I don't think it is necessarily true though.

Anonymous wrote:
At least two PP's reference a desirability for being more "European". Do you have any grasp on history at all? Do you know what "Europeans" went through when they came to the U.S.?!?! Honey, if I were to pick any identity to favor, it would not be European.

When Europeans came to the U.S., they did not DARE speak their own language or teach it to the children, for fear of huge repercussions and ramifications that were fully endorsed and considered perfectly legitimate at the time.

I laugh not because I belittle what OP is saying; but because when I read this post I shake my head realizing that most people have no idea that they are truly looking for something to whine about. Congratulations, you are now a full fledged Ugly American. You are your ethnicity when it is convenient. You should know that some never had that convenience and you are trying (subconsciously or not) to either dismiss history or prove you know nothing about it.

Curious what Europeans you're thinking of specifically--and immigration when? There's a vast range of time periods and experiences that you are generalizing about.

^And the award for missing the point and failing to think critically goes to...

NP here. Does anyone not realize what a racist area we live in and how the races simply do not get along very well here? Am I the only one that has lived elsewhere in the U.S. for any length of time, enough to realize this? It seems not many know much about sociology here and prefer the convenience of framing "this continent" "that continent" and "former slave owner". Really. Really?

I have also noticed people at DC's school who try so hard to be something that they are not. I understand that everyone (regardless of their skin and facial features) should be the best person they can be. Period.

I have seen minority and majority children dressed impeccably, yet behaving horribly. I honestly believe it has nothing to do with whether they are wearing a collared shirt or not. It's the age of the child, and what they think they can get away with being away from the parent/s. Its called being a child.

I have seen adults be so embarrassed (yes, embarrassed) or somehow made to feel bad by their OWN family (mostly their own parents and grandparents) about being more this heritage or that heritage (ahem, "white").

At least two families at DC's school try desperately to identify more with their "European" (not really) or "whiter" (not really) side than their Hispanic/Latino side. They see it as a sort of class climbing (though that is not what they call it, especially to Hispanic/Latinos). The name for this phenomenon escapes me right now. AA people used to call it being an Uncle Tom. It is the elephant in the room. It is there, but no one wants to touch that subject with a ten foot pole. One type of Spanish speaking subculture sees themselves as "superior to" another. For example, Argentineans are known for wanting to be at the "top" (not really) of the hierarchy, with Mexicans conveniently being put at the bottom of the hierarchy (-though not admittedly, as that would defeat the purpose). As if to say, "well, at least we're not them". I fully expect to be flamed for raising this reality at all.

At least two PP's reference a desirability for being more "European". Do you have any grasp on history at all? Do you know what "Europeans" went through when they came to the U.S.?!?! Honey, if I were to pick any identity to favor, it would not be European.

When Europeans came to the U.S., they did not DARE speak their own language or teach it to the children, for fear of huge repercussions and ramifications that were fully endorsed and considered perfectly legitimate at the time.

I laugh not because I belittle what OP is saying; but because when I read this post I shake my head realizing that most people have no idea that they are truly looking for something to whine about. Congratulations, you are now a full fledged Ugly American. You are your ethnicity when it is convenient. You should know that some never had that convenience and you are trying (subconsciously or not) to either dismiss history or prove you know nothing about it.

It is not just a few groups that experience prejudice today, but likely more groups than ever. Stop looking for something to whine about and be the best PERSON you can be. Like PP said, set a positive *example* to contradict the ignoramus position, if you must.

Most parents in their proper mind would allow their children to GROW through choosing their own style and clothing, as long as it is clean, comfortable, somewhat presentable (no pj's, no holes), age appropriate and not showing inappropriately.

Why must we pass on our fears and insecurities as well as our prejudices? Really.

I am a cuban american with features that are similar to Italians. I was from a poor family but raised in a wealthy area where my race was considered garbage. Throughout my schooling I would hear racist comments directed towards my culture but never towards me because everyone "forgot" I was hispanic. When people did realize my heritage I was and am treated differently. However, I will not let the ignorance of others affect how I choose to live my life or raise my children. I want my children to be proud of their culture and respectful humans. They don't need to live a life where their economical status is so important. They can wear what they want, friend who they want and if people don't want to see how wonderful they are then fuck them. They are the ones with the issues and frankly I wouldn't want to associate myself with people like that. We are not on this planet to impress one another.

To the person who won't pierce their daughters ears because it's "trashy"; You just stereotyped your own culture and should be ashamed to think that way. There are many different cultures who pierce their children's ears and it is not trashy.

Everyone needs to stop caring so much what others think of them. I've been called names my whole life but I don't spread the hate nor do I let a person who doesn't know me affect who I am.

Anonymous wrote:PP again - the conversation you had with those folks reminded me of the Modern Family where Cam keeps asking their Asian pediatrician where she's from, and talking about how Lily's going to be raised with her Asian heritage, and asking about Pho - and the pediatrician keeps saying she's from Denver.

I've never seen MF, but that scene would have killed me. My wife would have been cleaning me off the carpet if I had seen that one. Thanks.

PP again - the conversation you had with those folks reminded me of the Modern Family where Cam keeps asking their Asian pediatrician where she's from, and talking about how Lily's going to be raised with her Asian heritage, and asking about Pho - and the pediatrician keeps saying she's from Denver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can totally picture the incident in the waiting room happening, and I cringe because it's probably me in 40 years. I'm always desperate to talk to other adults (SAHM) and I'm sure I've used the most idiotic ways to "bring up" a conversation. I'm not trying to be rude, I swear, I just like to find something I can chat with people about. I like to know where people's families are front, or talk about books they're reading, things like that. I just like to chatter a bit and I'm sure I've said stupid things like this old couple. I can see how what they're saying was particularly insensitive but I just see them trying so hard to be nice and open and chatty, and find some familiar ground. Maybe I'm naive, I guess. No bad intentions (that I'm aware of anyway)!

PP 13:30 here again. Yes, they were very polite and trying their darnedest to be nice and polite. But the problem is they made the most common mistake by stereotyping someone by one aspect, race. So they talked about "your people" and such. I put on my best public speaker face and smiled and tried to be as nice as possible. Unfortunately, for those 10 minutes, I was representative of 7B peoples of all Asian nations, so I tried to leave them with the best impression I possibly could. My hopes were that they would have a better impression of Asian people based on their interaction with me.

For future reference, since you also seem to be well intentioned, just like this couple, there are plenty of non-racially based conversations to have. Although it is considered slightly rude by some, you can ask "Where are you from?" as long as you realize that you need to accept whatever they answer. For example, when asked where I'm from, I will typically respond "Pittsburgh" which is where I was born and raised. I then frequently get "No, I mean where are you REALLY from?" as if I must be a foreigner just because I'm of Asian descent. That's where you cross the line. However, try to imagine that they are Caucasian. If you were speaking with someone that was Caucasian and had no accent, would you ask "Where are you from?" Unlikely. If you really want to ask, try "Are you from around here?" And that gives them the opportunity to choose whether to open the discussion of their ancestry.

PP here, no, I totally understand why what they said was ignorant and insensitive. I do think I'm more savvy than they are, but I'm positive I've said stupid stuff that I didn't realize was stupid until later on. For example, I've often commented on the gender makeup of people's families (like, "all girls? That's great" or "all boys? How fun!") until I had two boys and found myself a little sensitive on the topic and learned that lots of other people are sensitive about it. Now I don't say a word about it even if they have 9 boys running around. I find something else to chatter about.

But I do appreciate the reminders to be sensitive. I've gotten a lot out of this thread. And I appreciate that you see their good intentions, despite how ridiculous they sounded. Thanks.

I'm the AA mom who posted about DD. It's not something I think of daily, its just a way of life. It's no different than working in a male dominated field, being aware of the "glass ceiling", and having a game plan. I'm not raising DD to be colorblind and naive. Fact is, she will not always be judged by the content of her character. She's not the only one. Quite frankly, sometimes I'm just happy she's not a boy.

Anonymous wrote:Her whole post is really sad to me. Your child is in daycare and if your daycare teachers are more excited and worried about what your child is wearing and how their hair looks, then you may want to switch daycares. I work at a daycare center and it does not matter to me or the other teachers if the child comes to school in pajamas, a bathing suit (it has happened more than a couple times) or wearing a suit and tie. We do not judge the parents or their child, on the child's choice of clothing. As long as they come in clean, as in bathed, then that is all that matters. I am not sure who you are trying to impress at the daycare. The children at that age do not care, the teachers could care less, and the other parents are only there for a short amount of time, drop off and pick up, so what is the point of impressing and showing off your child?

Let me guess...you're white, right? While, such color-blind attitudes are noble, you only have to live as a minority for a short while to know that even if 50% of the world were color-blind, the other 50% can truly affect your quality of life. Daycare workers tend to look on their charges equally for the most part, but other children and other parents are significant. Additionally, if you have to stop anywhere to or from daycare, the attitudes of other people are significant as well. For example, if people assume you are less educated, or lower class, or whatever, then when you stop to pay with a credit card, you will be the one that is ALWAYS asked for ID to confirm the credit card, while you watch the other people in the express line pass through without being asked. You go to a store and YOU are the random person that is always asked to stop and open your bags both on entering and exiting the store, to be sure you haven't shop-lifted anything. You are the one that gets rude and obnoxious comments, stares, or worse from the other parents in the parking lot of the daycare. Yes, it may not seem like much to you, but that's because it's likely never happened to you that you have been the victim of stereotyping or racial bias.

What's sad to me is that anyone who does see the world through color-blind eyes is also completely blind to the fact that a significantly large portion of the world does not and those people can and do make life difficult for racial minorities. Stop seeing the world only through how life treats you and how you treat others and maybe you'll see that there are injustices that others perpetuate that you do not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-American mom here of a toddler. Yes, we do put thought into how DD is dressed. She's the best dressed kid at her daycare. The other kids look neat some days and others like they rolled out of bed. The daycare workers told me last year that they love how I dress her and do her hair and look forward to seeing what she wears in the morning. She's color coordinated even on days when she's dressed down (to include her studs, hair accessories, shoes). I do think its cultural...she is the only AA girl at the daycare and I can't half step. It's ALWAYS assumed I'm on public assistance and using a voucher even though I'm an educated, a homeowner, professional, etc. Even when I say I'm a private payer, I'm given information on applying for a voucher. (I'm late 20s but assumed to be much younger usually.) Point is, DD does not have the luxury of a bad hair day or mismatched clothing or she becomes a charity case.

This is really sad. I wish everyone would stop equating minority with poor and uneducated. There's a huge AA middle class in this country, and especially here in the DC area. How are so many people blind to this? Children should be allowed to be children - messy, cute, rumpled children.

Her whole post is really sad to me. Your child is in daycare and if your daycare teachers are more excited and worried about what your child is wearing and how their hair looks, then you may want to switch daycares. I work at a daycare center and it does not matter to me or the other teachers if the child comes to school in pajamas, a bathing suit (it has happened more than a couple times) or wearing a suit and tie. We do not judge the parents or their child, on the child's choice of clothing. As long as they come in clean, as in bathed, then that is all that matters. I am not sure who you are trying to impress at the daycare. The children at that age do not care, the teachers could care less, and the other parents are only there for a short amount of time, drop off and pick up, so what is the point of impressing and showing off your child?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I do care and put thought on how I dress my daughter... she is a toddler and funny thing is, up until reading this post I hadn't realized so clearly why I do this. She also does not have pierced ears because it is seen as trashy and stereotyped as a poor/ignorant Latino immigrant thing.

Really? I never knew this...

Anonymous wrote:I can totally picture the incident in the waiting room happening, and I cringe because it's probably me in 40 years. I'm always desperate to talk to other adults (SAHM) and I'm sure I've used the most idiotic ways to "bring up" a conversation. I'm not trying to be rude, I swear, I just like to find something I can chat with people about. I like to know where people's families are front, or talk about books they're reading, things like that. I just like to chatter a bit and I'm sure I've said stupid things like this old couple. I can see how what they're saying was particularly insensitive but I just see them trying so hard to be nice and open and chatty, and find some familiar ground. Maybe I'm naive, I guess. No bad intentions (that I'm aware of anyway)!

PP 13:30 here again. Yes, they were very polite and trying their darnedest to be nice and polite. But the problem is they made the most common mistake by stereotyping someone by one aspect, race. So they talked about "your people" and such. I put on my best public speaker face and smiled and tried to be as nice as possible. Unfortunately, for those 10 minutes, I was representative of 7B peoples of all Asian nations, so I tried to leave them with the best impression I possibly could. My hopes were that they would have a better impression of Asian people based on their interaction with me.

For future reference, since you also seem to be well intentioned, just like this couple, there are plenty of non-racially based conversations to have. Although it is considered slightly rude by some, you can ask "Where are you from?" as long as you realize that you need to accept whatever they answer. For example, when asked where I'm from, I will typically respond "Pittsburgh" which is where I was born and raised. I then frequently get "No, I mean where are you REALLY from?" as if I must be a foreigner just because I'm of Asian descent. That's where you cross the line. However, try to imagine that they are Caucasian. If you were speaking with someone that was Caucasian and had no accent, would you ask "Where are you from?" Unlikely. If you really want to ask, try "Are you from around here?" And that gives them the opportunity to choose whether to open the discussion of their ancestry.

Yes, I do care and put thought on how I dress my daughter... she is a toddler and funny thing is, up until reading this post I hadn't realized so clearly why I do this. She also does not have pierced ears because it is seen as trashy and stereotyped as a poor/ignorant Latino immigrant thing.

"Where other people's families are FROM", sorry.