At the very least, it sounds like a communications wreck, with the admin and teachers saying "trust us" while not giving straight info upfront that would have facilitated a trusting atmosphere among parents who were not already sold on the merits of these teachers.

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has a child in the 50-student classroom being discussed:

No one is arguing that these are not experienced teachers with great reputations. But that has no bearing as to whether grouping 50 children in a single classroom space intended for 25 is a good idea, or whether the teachers or the principal have been responsive to parent concerns (they haven't been).

On back to school night, the teachers didn't address their 50-student plan at all until parents asked about it, 25 minutes into a 30-minute session. Their only explanation was that because of changes in classroom allocation, the teachers would otherwise have had to have classrooms right next to each other, and the potential noise created by this might have bothered one of the teachers, who said she is noise-sensitive.

As a former teacher, this is such BS. If you claim to be noise sensitive and plan to lecture 3rd graders, why not change your employer to a high school or college? This doesn't sound like something conducive to 8 year olds in the least... Nor does she sound like a teacher who should stay in an elementary school with an open classroom format.

As someone who has a child in the 50-student classroom being discussed:

No one is arguing that these are not experienced teachers with great reputations. But that has no bearing as to whether grouping 50 children in a single classroom space intended for 25 is a good idea, or whether the teachers or the principal have been responsive to parent concerns (they haven't been).

On back to school night, the teachers didn't address their 50-student plan at all until parents asked about it, 25 minutes into a 30-minute session. Their only explanation was that because of changes in classroom allocation, the teachers would otherwise have had to have classrooms right next to each other, and the potential noise created by this might have bothered one of the teachers, who said she is noise-sensitive.

(Note that all the other classroom spaces in the school are configured this way, so it's not like this "problem" of adjacent classrooms would have been unique to the 3rd grade; it's just how the Lafayette space is set up inside.) If there was a better instructional reason for combining the classes, the teachers didn't share it.

Also, no partitions were removed or moved to create this classroom configuration. All 50 kids are really, truly, in square footage intended for 25.

As the posts above illustrate, some parents are supportive of these teachers no matter what. But others of us are terribly concerned and trying to figure out what to do next.

We have already talked to the teachers, who seem set on pursing this model. We have spoken to the principal several times, who alternates between misstating the reality of the situation and telling us that we just need to trust her and the teachers.

Can anyone recommend a good education lawyer?

Anonymous wrote:I have a child in the classroom being discussed.

The teachers involved are smart, capable, creative, flexible and motivated, and as we heard clearly at back to school night, if this-as with any aspect of their classroom teaching- doesn't work, they would change it.

There is rampant inaccurate speculation on this thread about what motivated the decision to have a combined approach to teaching some of the class sessions.

The teachers could be Jesus, and it would still be hell for any kid with sensory issues.

Anonymous wrote:You people honestly need to get a grip. You don't have kids in this class (I do) and it's hard to understand why you are so irate about it. As explained, there are 2 outstanding teachers (a rarity, let's face it) teaching these kids, plus 2 student teachers right now. That's 4 people in the class! When one of the teachers goes on maternity leave from December - February, she's being replaced by an outstanding substitute. So far, two weeks in, my child is learning and is enthusiastic about the class. It was absolutely the teachers' decision to handle the class this way, it has nothing to do with budget. They have two rooms at their disposal, so they take smaller groups in to the other room. Lafayette doesn't have walls; most of the classes are divided by partitions, so it's not as if they're crammed into one traditional classroom. Unless you see it, it's hard to imagine it. If it doesn't work, I'm guessing these teachers will be the first one to say it's been a disaster and revert to regular classroom modes. I can understand complaints about this set-up, especially if you have a child with ADHD. However, Lafayette in general probably isn't your first pick if you have a kid who is easily distracted. Honestly, the fact that my child gets to have both of these great teachers is for me enough reason to have a wait and see attitude toward this class.

Both of my kids had these two teachers and this is a fact. They are both fantastic.

To everything churn churn churn...

A rarity -- after four years of reform, a 50% teacher attrition rate and an improved hiring process?

You people honestly need to get a grip. You don't have kids in this class (I do) and it's hard to understand why you are so irate about it. As explained, there are 2 outstanding teachers (a rarity, let's face it) teaching these kids, plus 2 student teachers right now. That's 4 people in the class! When one of the teachers goes on maternity leave from December - February, she's being replaced by an outstanding substitute. So far, two weeks in, my child is learning and is enthusiastic about the class. It was absolutely the teachers' decision to handle the class this way, it has nothing to do with budget. They have two rooms at their disposal, so they take smaller groups in to the other room. Lafayette doesn't have walls; most of the classes are divided by partitions, so it's not as if they're crammed into one traditional classroom. Unless you see it, it's hard to imagine it. If it doesn't work, I'm guessing these teachers will be the first one to say it's been a disaster and revert to regular classroom modes. I can understand complaints about this set-up, especially if you have a child with ADHD. However, Lafayette in general probably isn't your first pick if you have a kid who is easily distracted. Honestly, the fact that my child gets to have both of these great teachers is for me enough reason to have a wait and see attitude toward this class.

I've taught at the collegiate level and we were allowed to co-teach with other professors even in seminar contexts (< 15 students). My experience in university settings (might be different at liberal arts colleges or in state schools) is that course size is generally a function either of professor-imposed caps or of enrollment. Administrators don't have much to do with it (although there may be incentive structures to teach large classes and when you're lecturing and not doing sections (or doing a fixed number of sections), size doesn't change your workload much).

But lecture shouldn't be the dominant teaching style in elementary school. And there's a real difference between how interactive a lecture can be with 15 kids vs. 25 kids vs. 50 kids. (Whereas 50 vs. 150 -- not so much).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC is in third grade at Lafayette. This year, two of the other third grade classes have merged and are being "co-taught" by two teachers. They removed the partitions between the classrooms and each teacher is taking turns teaching 50 kids at a time. Needless to say, some parents are freaking out. The school and the two very highly thought of teachers insist it will be great. Anyone ever heard of thus type of thing before? Maybe if it has worked well at another school these parents will be reassured. I am glad my child s in a different class.

Sure, I've heard of this at the collegiate level, where it's obviously a cost-saving measure. Describing it as anything else for the elementary set is an insult to your intelligence. Welcome to getting screwed by DCPS.

At the collegiate level, they wouldn't have two full-time professors in one class - too expensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's not about pedagogy; that's about crowd control (which is, unsurprisingly, more of an issue in an overcrowded 50-kid classroom than in a 25 kid classroom). And it certainly doesn't take a second credentialed teacher to perform the crowd control function.

Exactly. I'm shocked that DCPS would allow it.

Of course you are. Until it's not working with these outstanding teachers (one of whom won an award last year for her DC Theater Cafe), then I'll judge.

Do you have a kid in the class? Suspending judgment is easy when you're not living with the results.

I doubt the award-winning teacher said "hey, I have a great idea -- Let's put 50 kids in a classroom designed for 25 and have only 42 chairs" -- unless she envisions this as some kind of theater piece...

Anonymous wrote:My DC is in third grade at Lafayette. This year, two of the other third grade classes have merged and are being "co-taught" by two teachers. They removed the partitions between the classrooms and each teacher is taking turns teaching 50 kids at a time. Needless to say, some parents are freaking out. The school and the two very highly thought of teachers insist it will be great. Anyone ever heard of thus type of thing before? Maybe if it has worked well at another school these parents will be reassured. I am glad my child s in a different class.

Sure, I've heard of this at the collegiate level, where it's obviously a cost-saving measure. Describing it as anything else for the elementary set is an insult to your intelligence. Welcome to getting screwed by DCPS.

Anonymous wrote:My child is in this class & there is no barrier removed to make it one large room. It is a room set up originally to house 25 children, now containing 50 kids, eight of whom have to sit on the floor everyday.

A half wall separating classrooms with square footage sufficient to accommodate the class size is hugely different than the situation these children are in.

So 50 kids are squeezing into a room that is meant to hold 25? Does this violate some sort of fire safety code or something?

8 children have to sit on the floor each day? Can they bring a chair from home or raise money to buy chairs for the school?

Wow, I'm now a middle school mom but have been there and done that all over ES. Just catching up with this thread -- 50 in classroom is just insane. Did this go on while Fenty's kids were there? I don't care how the teachers "controlled" the situation, this is absolutely stupid, and I hope the last poster is correct that this will be stopped.