Hey there - It seems like most parents who have their kids take the WISC-IV save it for the appeal. Did anyone submit it with their self-referral application and have good luck with it? My son did ok on one section of the CoGAT - 116, but not well enough to be in the pool. His other test scores were lower, in part because he is partially deaf and the Naglieri is oral based so he just doesn't process oral tests so well as reading them. He has had all outstanding grades in both 1st and 2nd and we decided to get the WISC-IV test done because the AAP coordinator at our school said that with his CoGAT and Naglieri test scores, it would make his application better if he scored well on the WISC-IV. We had him take it and his scores were all over the place, but he did amazingly well on the verbal section, with 99th percentile overall and the highest possible score on the comprehension section (99.5th percentile). We decided to submit the WISC-IV with the parent referral based on the AAP coordinator's suggestion, especially since I have made a decision not to appeal if he doesn't get in because the third grade teachers at our school in the regular program I'm told are as good as or better than the AAP program so I'm ok with him taking the CoGAT and Naglieri again in 3rd grade since I understand that they can retest one more time and this time he will know better what to expect (I did not test prep him at all). Plus, with his WISC scores all over the place (though he did excel in the verbal), I wasn't sure if he would have a worse chance on the appeal than with the self-referral process. I don't know how his teacher rated him because I didn't look at what they sent, but I know his teacher thinks highly of him and encouraged us to submit a parent referral application.

Anyway, I'm just curious if anyone else submitted WISC scores with the parent referral and had success getting their child into the AAP. Does anyone know if doing fantastic on the WISC in one section is good enough to get into AAP the way it is on the CoGAT and Naglieri?

PP, I think there is some research that shows it. It's not that high NV doesn't show high IQ, it's just that it's not a as accurate a predictor of academic success. I suspect it's because kids with high NV scores tend to be visual spatial learners. VS learners generally aren't good memorizers because they are "big picture" thinkers. School (especially these days) is geared toward auditory sequential learners and lots of memorization. So I think maybe the research backs up what the AART says but for a different reason. The AAP centers (at least ours) seem equipped to deal with VS learners so it shouldn't be a problem.

Thank you! I'm the PP cited in your comment. Yes, my DC is a classic spatial thinker too! DC loves to build contraptions, create things, draw, solve puzzles. I'm surprised by your AART's comment - if NV is not valued as a predictor, why does the county have two out of the four testing components assess this skill? I know about the ESL concern - but my point is why 2 out of 4?

My child had one perfect score in a subset of the CogAT (nonverbal, I believe). And she had a 106 on the verbal section! Her NNAT was 124 and she got in. We never did find out her GBRS, though.

Anonymous wrote:What do you think of the likelihood of the following scores being accepted in the first round? (We are also preparing an appeal in case we need it.)

NNAT 148
CogAT 130 nv
123 quantitative
122 verbal
GBRS 11

Supplemental material included an essay for which DC won an award, and parent letter noted DC is youngest in class and shy. (Since January DC has received all Os on tests.)

Thanks for any insights!

Here's my take on it. My DC had similar scores (although the NNAT was below 130 and the COGAT NV subtest was a perfect 150). DC had a 12 gbrs and was rejected -- but got in on appeal. Our AART told me they don't value the NV score as much because it's not a good predictor of academic success. DC took the WISC which confirmed the very high NV scores and DC scored better on the verbal parts than on the CogAt.

DC is doing GREAT at the center and it turns out that DC is a classic visual spatial learner, which the center seems better equipped to handle than our base school.

I think if you look at the posts, the scores, gbrs and acceptances are all over the board. It all seems very random. If your DC doesn't get in, I would definitely appeal.

I know of one kig that got perfect on one section, in the 110's in the rest, ok NNAT, 10 GBRS. She was accepted to AAP

Wow... do some kids actually get a perfect score on part of the cogat? Thats pretty impressive. Would they actually reject a kid that did that?

Keep posting those scores, please!

Having read most of the threads, it seems like a GBRS of 11 is okay, if your child is in the second grade pool. For parent-referred children (not in the pool), you need a higher GBRS (like 13 or more). And even for kids who ceiling out on a subtest (scoring 150), you see some rejections where the GBRS is 8 or below. Just my two cents, from reading the posts.

Great - thanks for your insights! I was concerned that the 11 GBRS is low (it was certainly lower than expected in light of what we see from DC at home). We are excited about the possibility of seeing DC further blossom in AAP.

Best wishes to everyone who is waiting for their eligibility decisions!

With a 148 NNNAt and nothing bad in the record (like a low GBRS) I would be very surprised if your child did not get in. I've heard from several sources that the Selection Committee is genuinely focused on looking for reasons to put the kids in, not reasons to keep them out.

What do you think of the likelihood of the following scores being accepted in the first round? (We are also preparing an appeal in case we need it.)

NNAT 148
CogAT 130 nv
123 quantitative
122 verbal
GBRS 11

Supplemental material included an essay for which DC won an award, and parent letter noted DC is youngest in class and shy. (Since January DC has received all Os on tests.)

Thanks for any insights!

Hey 20:18 -- With those scores, your child is a shoe-in. Congrats!

Actually, GBRS is not weighted up relative to tests. If you look, I am sure you will find very few kids with tests below 100 in AAP. 100 would be low (or actually average) test scores. 120 is about 80th percent, which is good. Not great, but good. The thing is test scores measure once (important) aspect of performance on one day. GBRS is theoretically based on a more long term average, though it is more subjective.

We have all had days when we do not feel sharp. My personal (not my DD's) test scores have varied by 40 points: low of 118, high of 160. I had a bad day on the 118. And I was sharper than normal on the 160. It can happen.

I did get the WISC done for him as the CogAT quantitative scores seemed off for someone so interested in math. Actually, the CogAT scores in general were not as high as I'd hoped, as the NNAT was the only score that got him into the pool.

As this is the scores thread, here goes:

NNAT2 score: 138
GBRS: 15
CogAT: Verbal 128, Quantitative 115, Nonverbal 129, Composite 127

WISC IV: FSIQ 141, VC 130, PR 135, WMI 141, PS 126