maybe because the poster I was responding to said: "Because of lack of discipline some children and parents are simply incapable of setting aside 20 to 30 min a day to work math problems[b] (Kumon). This takes away from their play time."

See the word Kumon in there? But I think we agree, you can get the 20-30 minutes in many different ways.

Not meant literally. Does (e.g., Kumon) make you happier and see the overriding point or mes.sage

Twenty to 30 minutes a day of working math problems and 20 to 30 min of reading with your 4-year-old child is way too much time to devote to a child by Starbuck chugging, self-absorbed undisciplined parents. It far easier to outsource parenthood to playdates, plasma screens and play.

I tend to agree. Our success as a country over that last century has bred the laziness from resting on one's laurels making play far easier than work.

Discipline is far too hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed, but it doesn't nave to be Kumon. There are a abunch of good math websites thata seem like fun, where a kid doesn't have to know he or she is learning like Cool Math and others.

Where do you get the idea it has to be Kumon? It doesn't have to be Kumon? It could be Mom or Dad or older sibling teaching (or as some prefer --engaging their curious child) math for 20 to 30 min a day?

That said, Kumon works for some.

maybe because the poster I was responding to said: "Because of lack of discipline some children and parents are simply incapable of setting aside 20 to 30 min a day to work math problems[b] (Kumon). This takes away from their play time."

See the word Kumon in there? But I think we agree, you can get the 20-30 minutes in many different ways.

Agreed, but it doesn't nave to be Kumon. There are a abunch of good math websites thata seem like fun, where a kid doesn't have to know he or she is learning like Cool Math and others.

Where do you get the idea it has to be Kumon? It doesn't have to be Kumon? It could be Mom or Dad or older sibling teaching (or as some prefer --engaging their curious child) math for 20 to 30 min a day?

That said, Kumon works for some.

Anonymous wrote:

Kuman sucks. Here again. The sports analogy doesn't work with this 3 and 4 year olds. Kuman sucks because it focuses ONLY on drill and skill and the children never get to play the game in a meaningful, joyous environment. They are not dressing up as a doctor and writing prescriptions for their patients at Kuman. They are not discussing the meaning of books and dramatizing them. They are not reading authors like Mo Willems and expressing themselves through the books. They are not playing rhyming games and making up words that rhyme, like, "There's a wocket in my pocket and there's some glue on my shoe." You get the point. This is what is developmentally appropriate at 3 and 4 years old!!!! All brain research shows that LANGUAGE development is most crucial at these ages. Reading engagement is also essential. Kill motivation at age 3 and you are in for a rough road ahead.

Now, be a parent! Forget Kuman and grab your child, pack a picnic lunch and read Eric Carle's "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" together with excitement and enjoyment. Learn about all of the food groups together and practice some rhyming games!

Because of lack of discipline some children and parents are simply incapable of setting aside 20 to 30 min a day to work math problems (Kumon). This takes away from their play time.

Agreed, but it doesn't nave to be Kumon. There are a abunch of good math websites thata seem like fun, where a kid doesn't have to know he or she is learning like Cool Math and others.

Twenty to 30 minutes a day of working math problems and 20 to 30 min of reading with your 4-year-old child is way too much time to devote to a child by Starbuck chugging, self-absorbed undisciplined parents. It far easier to outsource parenthood to playdates, plasma screens and play.

This is actually not true at all, especially when it comes to preschoolers. Its been studied -- play is what enables young children to develop higher level thinking, creativity, problem solving skills, and ultimately those are the kids who will be more successful academically. And engaging in "only" play at age 4 is the best thing a child can do developmentally. But hey, sit your four year down and make her do her math facts. Sounds like fun.

That theory did not work for my children. We lived outside of the US when they were young and they all we in school by age 4 and studying hard. Each was over 3 years ahead when we came back to US. They are all very well adjusted and successful. Academics later in American high schools and the Ivys were a breeze. In our case, this was due to their solid early foundation in school -- and not from play. I have no children that I let just play at age 2 to 4. And given my personal experience, I would never do that despite the manuscripts you are reading.

I wonder why some tiger countries in Asia are poised to take over global leadership in this century. I suspect all their 4 year olds are playing exclusively? They also seem to be more successfull academically? Perhaps America is declining because all our 4 year olds are going to school instead of exclusively playing like their counterparts in Asia?

Kuman sucks. Here again. The sports analogy doesn't work with this 3 and 4 year olds. Kuman sucks because it focuses ONLY on drill and skill and the children never get to play the game in a meaningful, joyous environment. They are not dressing up as a doctor and writing prescriptions for their patients at Kuman. They are not discussing the meaning of books and dramatizing them. They are not reading authors like Mo Willems and expressing themselves through the books. They are not playing rhyming games and making up words that rhyme, like, "There's a wocket in my pocket and there's some glue on my shoe." You get the point. This is what is developmentally appropriate at 3 and 4 years old!!!! All brain research shows that LANGUAGE development is most crucial at these ages. Reading engagement is also essential. Kill motivation at age 3 and you are in for a rough road ahead.

Now, be a parent! Forget Kuman and grab your child, pack a picnic lunch and read Eric Carle's "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" together with excitement and enjoyment. Learn about all of the food groups together and practice some rhyming games!

Because of lack of discipline some children and parents are simply incapable of setting aside 20 to 30 min a day to work math problems (Kumon). This takes away from their play time.

Learning and training for a sport for many is not always "enjoyable" during the moment. What distinguishes some individuals in and out of sport is discipline. This discipline and preserverence is a quality missing in many children, adults and parents in our society. Those with it, understand what is meant by mastery and what it takes (math, music or medicine). Those without it offer excuses of boredom, repetition, drill and drudgery -- and not enough happiness, joy and play for the moment. We should should all do what we want, and when we want, moment to moment with our 'unlimited' resources; particularly if we are children from ages 3 to 5.

Kuman sucks. Here again. The sports analogy doesn't work with this 3 and 4 year olds. Kuman sucks because it focuses ONLY on drill and skill and the children never get to play the game in a meaningful, joyous environment. They are not dressing up as a doctor and writing prescriptions for their patients at Kuman. They are not discussing the meaning of books and dramatizing them. They are not reading authors like Mo Willems and expressing themselves through the books. They are not playing rhyming games and making up words that rhyme, like, "There's a wocket in my pocket and there's some glue on my shoe." You get the point. This is what is developmentally appropriate at 3 and 4 years old!!!! All brain research shows that LANGUAGE development is most crucial at these ages. Reading engagement is also essential. Kill motivation at age 3 and you are in for a rough road ahead.

Now, be a parent! Forget Kuman and grab your child, pack a picnic lunch and read Eric Carle's "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" together with excitement and enjoyment. Learn about all of the food groups together and practice some rhyming games!

Anonymous wrote:

Kuman sucks. It's skill and drill. Our young children need to experience the joy of reading and math at ages 3-5, not skill and drill.

A child cannot experience the joy of reading without reading over and over and over and over again.
A child cannot experience the joy of mathematics without solving problems over and over and over and over again.
In both instances, to develop expertise, booster confidence and develop passion and joy, the reading and problem solving must get progressively harder, and harder, and harder, and more difficult, over and over and over and over again.

Who cares what you call or don't call this? Skill, drill, drilling for joy, repetition, letting the child choose for themselves, letting the child lead, letting the child drive to school?

Children that don't read, or speak, or write, or solve problems and socially interact will have major problems down the road. Children who play all the time without reading, writing, solving problems and socially interacting will also have problems down the road.

Playing is not the sole activity happy and joyous children must engage in.

This is actually not true at all, especially when it comes to preschoolers. Its been studied -- play is what enables young children to develop higher level thinking, creativity, problem solving skills, and ultimately those are the kids who will be more successful academically. And engaging in "only" play at age 4 is the best thing a child can do developmentally. But hey, sit your four year down and make her do her math facts. Sounds like fun.

Unfortunately for us, the drill and kill just doesn't work for my DC's personality. Kumon was a failed experiment for us because DC came to resent it and wouldn't do the work. Maybe your kid is different. Kumon is good if your kid will embrace it, or t least put up with it, but mine wouldn't. DC is in AAP, but has a different style of learning things.

Not all "math programs" work equally for all; hence, finding the right fit. It seems like those who have finished the Kumon math program through Calculus, you have found the fit that works for your child. If AAP is workimg I bet your child is doing math over and over and over and over with a more agreeable bent or style. Some of my colleagues don't like AoPS because it is too fast paced and difficult a point to begin with their children.

Wow, was that article depressing! Honestly, I am totally fine with my child going to one of the thousands of "other" colleges. It seems insane to have an Ivy be the be all and end all with odds like that.

I wish there were more parents like you so those aspiring to Ivy and to "Other" remain happy. That doesn't appear the case though.

Unfortunately for us, the drill and kill just doesn't work for my DC's personality. Kumon was a failed experiment for us because DC came to resent it and wouldn't do the work. Maybe your kid is different. Kumon is good if your kid will embrace it, or t least put up with it, but mine wouldn't. DC is in AAP, but has a different style of learning things.

Anonymous wrote:

I think all enrichment must stop. Now. Stifle all talent! Congress should pass laws! The Supreme Court should make them unconstitutional!

Funny.

Those advocating for slowing kids down are precisely those mothers described in the article below who want to have it both ways. They want to have their cake and eat it...much like their parents and grand parents did.



http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1969/12/the-ivy-delusion/8397/1/

Wow, was that article depressing! Honestly, I am totally fine with my child going to one of the thousands of "other" colleges. It seems insane to have an Ivy be the be all and end all with odds like that.