Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

For pre med, your child is missing basically nothing.

Outside of pre med, ivies are feeders for certain elite companies in finance, consulting, and tech. Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, etc. That is their main advantage. Ivies also attract type A personalities who go on to found companies, like Facebook and Microsoft. But they aren't magical founder factories - Gates and Zuckerberg notably dropped out. Your kid will get an amazing education and do great things in life from UVA.

The Ivies have produced the biggest sh**heads in modern America -- Trump, Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, DeSantis, Vance, Bush, Clinton, and the list goes on and on. Be glad your kid is going to UVA. The Ivies have a lot of apologizing to do.

Well, UVA would have to claim RFK Jr., Ken Paxton, Richard Spenser. . .

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of all UVA pre-med students who apply to medical school are accepted? Using the same methodology, how does that rate compare to Ivy League schools?

The last time UVA published it they said over 60%but it included MD and DO.

Most ivies and similar quote 80-90% for MD programs(they do not list or count DO in totals, though to be fair those schools actively discourage DO).

None of the ivies or other top schools or UVA actively gatekeep as they did in the 90s, meaning anyone can apply to medical school, they do not refuse to write a letter as they used to. They do however encourage gap years or post bacs for students with lower GPA. They also show you stats on admission for your GPA range and MCAT and which schools are possible. That alone discourages a subset from applying at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

For pre med, your child is missing basically nothing.

Outside of pre med, ivies are feeders for certain elite companies in finance, consulting, and tech. Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, etc. That is their main advantage. Ivies also attract type A personalities who go on to found companies, like Facebook and Microsoft. But they aren't magical founder factories - Gates and Zuckerberg notably dropped out. Your kid will get an amazing education and do great things in life from UVA.

The Ivies have produced the biggest sh**heads in modern America -- Trump, Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, DeSantis, Vance, Bush, Clinton, and the list goes on and on. Be glad your kid is going to UVA. The Ivies have a lot of apologizing to do.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

The No. 1 school, JHU is at 4%, It's still a pretty small number.

No just NO. That data keeps getting shared on here. it is from linked-in or something it has nothing to do with reality.
It is completely flawed data.

Look at published AMCAS tables or the schools themselves. At JHU, 470 undergrads applied to US medical schools for 2025 and 85% got in. 45% were from that senior year, the rest split between one gap and two gap years. Averaged over the years, 350-500 eventually apply to medical school from each graduating class of 1550, and 90% of them get in!
That is NOT FOUR PERCENT.

Other top feeders are most of the ivies plus other top schools with medical schools such as Vanderbilt, Duke, WashU, Emory: They each supply 350-500 applicants to the US MD programs only(DO is not included) and have undergrad graduating classes of 1500 to 2400, or 15-35% of each graduating class.
They each report 80-93% success of their medical school applicants.
UCLA had 1270 applicants to US Med schools, with an undergrad class of around 8500 per year or 15% which is the largest Public-school feeder overall and per capita in the country.
UVA had 478 applicants to US med schools for an undergrad class cohort of around 4100, 11%, which is well above average as far as med school feeder.

-Med admissions consultant again.

I am not sure where you got this data point but it is incorrect. Per JHU themselves (https://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/preprofadvising/pre-medhealth/after-graduation/) over 80% of JHU students take a gap year. For Harvard it is 85% as well.

What percentage of all UVA pre-med students who apply to medical school are accepted? Using the same methodology, how does that rate compare to Ivy League schools?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

The No. 1 school, JHU is at 4%, It's still a pretty small number.

No just NO. That data keeps getting shared on here. it is from linked-in or something it has nothing to do with reality.
It is completely flawed data.

Look at published AMCAS tables or the schools themselves. At JHU, 470 undergrads applied to US medical schools for 2025 and 85% got in. 45% were from that senior year, the rest split between one gap and two gap years. Averaged over the years, 350-500 eventually apply to medical school from each graduating class of 1550, and 90% of them get in!
That is NOT FOUR PERCENT.

Other top feeders are most of the ivies plus other top schools with medical schools such as Vanderbilt, Duke, WashU, Emory: They each supply 350-500 applicants to the US MD programs only(DO is not included) and have undergrad graduating classes of 1500 to 2400, or 15-35% of each graduating class.
They each report 80-93% success of their medical school applicants.
UCLA had 1270 applicants to US Med schools, with an undergrad class of around 8500 per year or 15% which is the largest Public-school feeder overall and per capita in the country.
UVA had 478 applicants to US med schools for an undergrad class cohort of around 4100, 11%, which is well above average as far as med school feeder.

-Med admissions consultant again.

UCLA, when they published premed medical school admission data, only had a medical school acceptance rate (% accepted to 1 or more school) of 48.5%, which is slightly above the national average. Many of the UCLA applicants may be applying a second or third time.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

No. But adjusting for school size is better than not adjusting for school size. Otherwise, you run the risk of determining that Ohio State and Arizona State are the best schools for pre-med. I am not aware of any analysis that starts with the percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because that information is not available.

AMCAS table of applicants and divide by graduating seniors.

The AAMC information is number of applicants by school, not acceptances, and it also not percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because many if not most of those do not end up applying.

[b]The acceptance rate of actual applicants is found on each school's premed page, though some schools have the data accessible to current students only.
Whether more students start as premed is irrelevant to the upthread statement that only 4% are premed. [/b]At the top schools, private and public, the range is 15-35% of the graduating class applies to MD programs in the US (usually 0, 1 or 2 years after graduating) and 80-93% of those get in to at least one school. Yes, likely 25-45% started as premeds, depending on weedout factors which by the way are a lot less and sometimes nonexistent at the same group of top schools. But at a minimum, 15-35% are premed the entire time and that is indeed a huge figure.
Law data can be parsed the same way though I do not personally have access to nearly as much data for law as med, just my kids' ivies, and it is about the same as med school, 15-24% of each graduating class applies within a year or so of graduating, almost all are successful. PhD is far more difficult and likely not as big, though there are some departments that list grads and 50% are going straight to phD next year. Some have very few. Depends on the field, plus as phd is much more competitive it may drop a lot next year in favor of masters.
The ivy/elite schools often have over 60% who go for med, law, phd or other grad/professional school within 0-3 years of graduating. Those figures are not too changed than when I was at a different ivy around 1991. Certain careers will always be targeted by the top schools, and though consulting is popular, many of them only do it for a couple of years then go back to school, commonly MBA though I know a few MD colleagues who did it for the money.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Ivy vs State schools. Most schools do not report actual medical acceptance rates, and certainly not with the same methodology applied. What is the medical school acceptance rate for UVA?

No one said only 4% are pre-med or that there was a 4% pre-med acceptance rate for JHU. You misread the College Transitions list. It was percentage of LinkedIn listings by school where the undergraduate went on to earn an MD.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

No. But adjusting for school size is better than not adjusting for school size. Otherwise, you run the risk of determining that Ohio State and Arizona State are the best schools for pre-med. I am not aware of any analysis that starts with the percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because that information is not available.

AMCAS table of applicants and divide by graduating seniors.

The AAMC information is number of applicants by school, not acceptances, and it also not percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because many if not most of those do not end up applying.

The acceptance rate of actual applicants is found on each school's premed page, though some schools have the data accessible to current students only.
Whether more students start as premed is irrelevant to the upthread statement that only 4% are premed. At the top schools, private and public, the range is 15-35% of the graduating class applies to MD programs in the US (usually 0, 1 or 2 years after graduating) and 80-93% of those get in to at least one school. Yes, likely 25-45% started as premeds, depending on weedout factors which by the way are a lot less and sometimes nonexistent at the same group of top schools. But at a minimum, 15-35% are premed the entire time and that is indeed a huge figure.
Law data can be parsed the same way though I do not personally have access to nearly as much data for law as med, just my kids' ivies, and it is about the same as med school, 15-24% of each graduating class applies within a year or so of graduating, almost all are successful. PhD is far more difficult and likely not as big, though there are some departments that list grads and 50% are going straight to phD next year. Some have very few. Depends on the field, plus as phd is much more competitive it may drop a lot next year in favor of masters.
The ivy/elite schools often have over 60% who go for med, law, phd or other grad/professional school within 0-3 years of graduating. Those figures are not too changed than when I was at a different ivy around 1991. Certain careers will always be targeted by the top schools, and though consulting is popular, many of them only do it for a couple of years then go back to school, commonly MBA though I know a few MD colleagues who did it for the money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

No. But adjusting for school size is better than not adjusting for school size. Otherwise, you run the risk of determining that Ohio State and Arizona State are the best schools for pre-med. I am not aware of any analysis that starts with the percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because that information is not available.

AMCAS table of applicants and divide by graduating seniors.

The AAMC information is number of applicants by school, not acceptances, and it also not percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because many if not most of those do not end up applying.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:UVA is ivy in others eyes, even though may not be in tier 1.

1. The Ivy League is an athletic conference, nothing more.
2. The top SLACs are better at undergraduate education than any Ivy for most subjects.
3. Strong public’s are their equals and often superior for technical education.
4. UVA is a top school but none of the Public schools are the equal to any of the top schools in either of the above categories.
4. You can get to any medical school from any of the above by working hard and taking advantage of what they offer.

Focus in where your kid is, not where they aren't. If they do the work they will be fine.

I don't like all the ivy worship either but it is more than an athletic conference

It’s not. People who don’t know any better perceive it as something more than it is while others who do know better play along because it suits their interests. The 8 schools are quite different from one another and absolutely are not the top 8 R1s in the country by any objective measure. When you see applicants shotgunning the Ivies they are not looking for superior education but rather hunting for prestige. It is a truly banal exercise among some groups.

My first three points above (edited) hold.

I don't think it's reasonable to say it's just an athletic conference.

That prestige you mention isn't an illusion.
There are some industries that will recruit from Ivy at way higher rates than from UC San Francisco
The Ivies have more nobel prize winning professors than any other group of schools
The Ivies combined have a larger collective endowment than any other group of schools

What groups are engaging in the banal exercise of pursuing ivy?

UC San Francisco is graduate and health and life sciences only.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

No. But adjusting for school size is better than not adjusting for school size. Otherwise, you run the risk of determining that Ohio State and Arizona State are the best schools for pre-med. I am not aware of any analysis that starts with the percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because that information is not available.

AMCAS table of applicants and divide by graduating seniors.

Anonymous wrote:^^^Can you explain what BCPM GPA means? I’m guessing Bio/Chem/Physics/M-????

M=Math.
It is a stem GPA. Any course that is listed on the transcript or otherwise determined to be under the departments of biology chemistry physics or math is included. If biochem is a separate department it is included too of course.

The BCPM GPA is the only one that really matters, as it is the apples-to-apples comparison among undergrads from the same institution, with the caveat that an engineering major will have 80% not 50% of their courses as BCPM and thus an overall much harder path considering taking 4 of 5 courses as stem versus 2 of 4 (typical science-major premed) is almost exponentially harder. Engineers are allowed a slightly lower gpa if needed though typically undergrad institutions provide the context of the engineering GPA, thus they can be compared to engineering applicants.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

The No. 1 school, JHU is at 4%, It's still a pretty small number.

No just NO. That data keeps getting shared on here. it is from linked-in or something it has nothing to do with reality.
It is completely flawed data.

Look at published AMCAS tables or the schools themselves. At JHU, 470 undergrads applied to US medical schools for 2025 and 85% got in. 45% were from that senior year, the rest split between one gap and two gap years. Averaged over the years, 350-500 eventually apply to medical school from each graduating class of 1550, and 90% of them get in!
That is NOT FOUR PERCENT.

Other top feeders are most of the ivies plus other top schools with medical schools such as Vanderbilt, Duke, WashU, Emory: They each supply 350-500 applicants to the US MD programs only(DO is not included) and have undergrad graduating classes of 1500 to 2400, or 15-35% of each graduating class.
They each report 80-93% success of their medical school applicants.
UCLA had 1270 applicants to US Med schools, with an undergrad class of around 8500 per year or 15% which is the largest Public-school feeder overall and per capita in the country.
UVA had 478 applicants to US med schools for an undergrad class cohort of around 4100, 11%, which is well above average as far as med school feeder.

-Med admissions consultant again.

With respect to medical school matriculation, many moderately selective schools place well when considered by this analysis:

https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/from-pre-med-to-md-understanding-the-pathways-to-medical-school/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23683745702&gclid=CjwKCAjw8arQBhB9EiwAfIKdQqmFi_buSafVyBsaPLwsEZ4Ob6hPTPzvdwDJ2E00mDAZAIWSF4T-ZhoCOp4QAvD_BwE

^^^Can you explain what BCPM GPA means? I’m guessing Bio/Chem/Physics/M-????