Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Yes - this is it. We've been told this many times.

Mind you, both my kids were 3.8uw - one had only 1 T20 options; the other had 6 T20 and 3 WL. The latter had some of the best LOR the CCO had seen. DC was a 3.8uw kid - but was the helper, the planner, stepped into to co-teach sessions, volunteered in emails over the summer with the teacher. Was a visible community leader - the HOS cried when handing DC diploma. You can't fake that.
That kind of kid.

Our Pvt HS class had two kids who were close to 1600, 4.0 weighted. Both of them were not nice kids. They would make fun of other kids for being slightly worse in a challenging math class, or were rude to the lunch servers, etc., dismissive of their teachers. But both brilliant kids.

My child, who is now at an Ivy, was in all of the classes with them, and did really well, just not quite as good as them in some of the classes. My kid was was loved by his teachers, many of whom he still keeps in touch with, one of whom he texts when he is having a tough time with things in college. They are friends. His teachers told him they were going to write him a great LOR, and that they would do anything to help get into the college he wanted.

The other kids were not nice kids. Neither of them got into ivies. But they did get into good schools. The one kid, who was valedictorian, in his speech acknowledged that he didn't get the most out of his high school experience because he didn't fully embrace the friendships that were available to him. He said he was going to make an effort in college to change his approach to others and not just focus on acing every test. It was actually an inspiring speech, especially for me who tends to be that way with my personality (my kids are more like my wife, thankfully).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Yes - this is it. We've been told this many times.

Mind you, both my kids were 3.8uw - one had only 1 T20 options; the other had 6 T20 and 3 WL. The latter had some of the best LOR the CCO had seen. DC was a 3.8uw kid - but was the helper, the planner, stepped into to co-teach sessions, volunteered in emails over the summer with the teacher. Was a visible community leader - the HOS cried when handing DC diploma. You can't fake that.
That kind of kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

You are why teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?