Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do get it. They've done it already.

OP has a point, but I've also seen women here complain about the ILs overstepping by simply doing the dishes. Full on tantrum about MIL folding the laundry or vacuuming or the mere offer to help a postpartum DIL is a violation of boundaries. The ILs are in a lose - lose too.

This and the fighting over who is "hosting" the holiday dinners. These martyrs want to take that burden on to their overflowing plates for whatever reason. They complain about doing it all, but then insist on doing it all. No wonder their husbands back off and sit on the couch, they complain about that too. Whatever happens, there will be complaints so why bother?

I never got the fighting over hosting. It's a lot of work. I was happy to have my MIL and SIL do the big family dinners, bring the famiiy and a nice dish, then compliment the hosts for their hospitality.

I also love to free load and take advantage of others’ need to host. Personally I don’t have the energy or inclination to host anyone myself!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do get it. They've done it already.

OP has a point, but I've also seen women here complain about the ILs overstepping by simply doing the dishes. Full on tantrum about MIL folding the laundry or vacuuming or the mere offer to help a postpartum DIL is a violation of boundaries. The ILs are in a lose - lose too.

This and the fighting over who is "hosting" the holiday dinners. These martyrs want to take that burden on to their overflowing plates for whatever reason. They complain about doing it all, but then insist on doing it all. No wonder their husbands back off and sit on the couch, they complain about that too. Whatever happens, there will be complaints so why bother?

I never got the fighting over hosting. It's a lot of work. I was happy to have my MIL and SIL do the big family dinners, bring the famiiy and a nice dish, then compliment the hosts for their hospitality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do get it. They've done it already.

OP has a point, but I've also seen women here complain about the ILs overstepping by simply doing the dishes. Full on tantrum about MIL folding the laundry or vacuuming or the mere offer to help a postpartum DIL is a violation of boundaries. The ILs are in a lose - lose too.

This and the fighting over who is "hosting" the holiday dinners. These martyrs want to take that burden on to their overflowing plates for whatever reason. They complain about doing it all, but then insist on doing it all. No wonder their husbands back off and sit on the couch, they complain about that too. Whatever happens, there will be complaints so why bother?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

I have a great relationship with my MIL, and I wouldn’t if she were like you, PP. If my MIL told me that I’m the best mother she knows, I’d think she must not know any moms. How could I be the best mom if I’m just starting to be a mom? It’s insincere.

+1. I'd be suspicious too. My MIL always said that no one was perfect and that rang true to me.

+2 It sounds like that PP is just playing games: "Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction."

NGL after reading DCUM I'm feeling a bit anxious about future DILs, but my MIL was always low-key and honest, which is how I am, so hoping for the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

LOL. Frankly, if my future DIL has all this angst I would not want to do anything with her or the grandkids.

And of course my son is to blame for choosing this mentally ill, toxic and poorly raised person - so he can handle her. I am 100% ok to grayrock the whole branch.

If you consider this dramatic, making yourself scarce is probably best for everyone.

Signed,
Have grown kids and learned a lot about how to be a good IL by observing their grandparents

Anonymous wrote:They do get it. They've done it already.

OP has a point, but I've also seen women here complain about the ILs overstepping by simply doing the dishes. Full on tantrum about MIL folding the laundry or vacuuming or the mere offer to help a postpartum DIL is a violation of boundaries. The ILs are in a lose - lose too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

LOL. Frankly, if my future DIL has all this angst I would not want to do anything with her or the grandkids.

And of course my son is to blame for choosing this mentally ill, toxic and poorly raised person - so he can handle her. I am 100% ok to grayrock the whole branch.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an old rump boomer MIL and don't know how you do it. I still don't know how I did it. Please tell those oldsters you're overwhelmed and need help. If they can't/won't provide it, quit worrying about their feelings. Prioritize your nuclear family. You don't get these years back. Take all the help you can get and pay it forward when the time comes.

Good luck and take care of yourself!

This is great advice OP. My mother prioritized her parents over us and I still think about it even though she's now gone and I'm pushing 60.

Just stop including them so much if they're whining (to the extent that it won't harm your kids, of course). There is one grandparent we do the bare minimum for bc (1) it's never enough and (2) she has to be waited on hand and foot, down to getting a glass of water (yes I have shown her where everything is and I set up the coffee maker in the morning, etc- she won't do anything for herself).

You matter too- don't worry about why they are or aren't helping more, just cut down your contact with them to whatever your bandwidth is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Number 6 is so important - add value to their lives. Lots of grandparents (including my parents) think that my kids exist to add value to THEIR lives. They have put in zero effort to get to know my kids, it's always just all about them plus finding out about my kids' accomplishments so they can brag to their friends about their intelligence being passed on to their grandkids. Not even joking.

I think it's so important to get to know your dd/ds's spouse, to get to know the adult version of your dd/ds, and to get to know your grandkids. You can ask them if they would appreciate you offering help, you showing up with help, you're waiting to be asked for help, but if you get to know them, it might not even need to do this. But just actually paying attention to them and their needs and remembering that just because you're a grandparent, doesn't mean you get to throw all social skills out the window.

Yes to all of this. My parents and inlaws who basically left us to raise ourselves expected us to cater to them and give them things to brag about. They didn't work and made it clear they raised their own kids and would not help. We had not asked,but assumed this anyway. The most entitled was when my SMIL tried to guilt trip us. My husband barely ever saw his father after the parental divorce. You don't get to pull th4 "after all I've done for you."

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Number 6 is so important - add value to their lives. Lots of grandparents (including my parents) think that my kids exist to add value to THEIR lives. They have put in zero effort to get to know my kids, it's always just all about them plus finding out about my kids' accomplishments so they can brag to their friends about their intelligence being passed on to their grandkids. Not even joking.

I think it's so important to get to know your dd/ds's spouse, to get to know the adult version of your dd/ds, and to get to know your grandkids. You can ask them if they would appreciate you offering help, you showing up with help, you're waiting to be asked for help, but if you get to know them, it might not even need to do this. But just actually paying attention to them and their needs and remembering that just because you're a grandparent, doesn't mean you get to throw all social skills out the window.

Anonymous wrote:
Agree w previous poster. De prioritize your parents & in laws.

You’re busy. Decent parents who’ve walked the walk won’t take it personal nor demand your time energy and resources.

Hopefully the husband of yours is on board.

Me three. I stopped feeling bad for my dad that I can’t give him all the time, love and respect that he wants.
He used to see me once every few years and now he has the audacity to say we “rarely see each other” when it’s every week.
No dad, you are extremely lucky, so shut up with your passive aggressive comments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

You could be my MIL. If you wait to be asked for help, you will never be asked. Dh and I would rather pay and do anything possible rather than beg for help. I can’t imagine having so little self respect that I’d ask for help. I can manage. Luckily my parents offer quickly, or most times they just show up with dinner and offer to help put kids to bed. MIL is so jealous that my parents see my kids more. Once when I was hospitalized, my in-laws told dh that it was good my parents were helping since it was me hospitalized. But when dh went on a 6 week work trip we didn’t hear from them once.

My MIL waits to be called and is always pissed she never gets phone calls and doesn’t hear from her grandchildren much. My parents call.

We never plan vacations with extended family, but if we’re invited, we always go. (I have gone on trips with in-laws even though I wasn’t consulted whatsoever on dates or locations, but dh and I are easy going). And we don’t mind paying our way. I only have enough time to plan nuclear family vacations.

I seriously wonder if the reason they never helped postpartum now was because we didn’t ask for help. I remember dh being very disappointed they didn’t visit. They came right after birth but left before we got home. I think he imagined his mom being there. It didn’t even occur to us to beg her to visit postpartum.

You sure about that?

Oh god yes, the difference between how the different grandparents handle this is STAGGERING. We have three very young children.

My mom and stepfather are wonderful grandparents. They live far, but visit often, are always a sympathetic ear, love my kids and play with them and help however they can. My mom remembers how hard it was and my stepdad (who is wonderful, but missed these years with my sister and I as he obviously joined the scene later) REALLY sees it and gets it. A lot of “I don’t know how you do all this all the time!” It’s really validating.

My dad, who I actually used to be closer to, clearly wasn’t doing half the work when we were tiny (I mean, it was the 80s, so fair). He kinda gets it, but then does things like watch me spend 20 mins getting all three kids ready to go (packing the diaper bag, making the bigger kids pee, getting shoes on and coats on and hats on, getting the stroller ready, while also keeping the three kids alive and happy), hear me give several warnings to the big kids (“you need to use the potty we’re leaving in 10 mins”, “get your shoes on we’re leaving in five mins”) and then AS WE ARE ALL WALKING OUT THE DOOR will say “oh, I should probably pee first. And do you know where I put my hat?”

Seriously?!?

It’s less that he doesn’t get it and more than he just lives in a world where 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, unless there’s like, a movie about to start, it doesn’t matter. He doesn’t realize that waiting five mins for him means someone’s going to get hot and take their coat off, someone’s going to get engaged in a toy and need to be pulled away, and that when the baby only has 3 hours between naps, 10 mins can make things TIGHT.

My FIL is COMPLETELY clueless. We’re going to visit him this weekend in his wildly unbabyproofed house with all three kids and he asked my husband if they could have some time just the two of them. NO! We’re there for 2 hours with three kids under 6. (And side note, he does get a fair amount of 1:1 time with my husband, as he lives closest). And he wants to play PICTIONARY. Sir, the average age of my kids is 2.5. That is NOT going to work.

I think he has a combination of a bad memory and the fact that my MIL (deceased) clearly did all the work when the kids were little.

This man asked me (I work in tech) to fix the email on his phone when I was 48 hours postpartum with my third. I looked at him like he was crazy and said “no, I’m pretty busy” and he ASKED AGAIN the next day. I had to literally say “no, I’m recovering from childbirth, you need to ask someone else or bring it to the Apple Store for help.” Who needs to be told that?!?

It’s crazy making.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

You could be my MIL. If you wait to be asked for help, you will never be asked. Dh and I would rather pay and do anything possible rather than beg for help. I can’t imagine having so little self respect that I’d ask for help. I can manage. Luckily my parents offer quickly, or most times they just show up with dinner and offer to help put kids to bed. MIL is so jealous that my parents see my kids more. Once when I was hospitalized, my in-laws told dh that it was good my parents were helping since it was me hospitalized. But when dh went on a 6 week work trip we didn’t hear from them once.

My MIL waits to be called and is always pissed she never gets phone calls and doesn’t hear from her grandchildren much. My parents call.

We never plan vacations with extended family, but if we’re invited, we always go. (I have gone on trips with in-laws even though I wasn’t consulted whatsoever on dates or locations, but dh and I are easy going). And we don’t mind paying our way. I only have enough time to plan nuclear family vacations.

I seriously wonder if the reason they never helped postpartum now was because we didn’t ask for help. I remember dh being very disappointed they didn’t visit. They came right after birth but left before we got home. I think he imagined his mom being there. It didn’t even occur to us to beg her to visit postpartum.

I am like you and rarely asked my local ILs for help because DH and I have always been self-sufficient. Whenever we did include them, they always came. I did not have my parents nearby so we could have used more IL help. When their daughter had children, they helped her a lot but she did need it because her DH was useless. I think parents do more for their daughters because they feel comfortable in their homes and have that relationship.