Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

As a homeowner I agree. But you have to compare it to the cost over time of renting a comparable house. Appliances have to be replaced, but not as often as most people assume. Over 30 years, I think renters come out ahead in years 1-10, it’s basically a push for years 10-20, and homeowners come out slightly ahead in years 20-30. Then, after the house is paid off, homeowners make huge financial gains on renters.

You have to compare apples-to-apples:

Own: Down payment, plus PITI, plus maintenance, less possible tax savings if interest deduction plus other deductions exceeds the standard deduction, less capital gains when you eventually sell
Rent: Monthly Rent, less the return on the down payment if you keep that invested in the market

Both maintenance costs and monthly rent will be impacted by inflation.

I don't know which option comes out ahead. Much of it would have to do with the inflation factor applied to monthly rent (which you would also have to apply to maintenance costs but off a likely smaller base). I don't think rent inflation where I am in Upper NW DC has actually been too significant over the last 15 years or so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Read above. They stay with me, the landlord. Because you can’t increase rents unlimited. Rents growth in DC (even the best zip codes) over 15 years is way behind the maintenance and labor inflation
The same roof repair was $1k back in 2007 . It’s now 4 times more. But I cents charge 1690*4=6,760 for a one bedroom apartment. Nobody would rent it

Landlords aren't losing money over the long run with their rentals. At least ones with brains aren't.

Give us your math and zip code I’ll check right away if you are making any money

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Read above. They stay with me, the landlord. Because you can’t increase rents unlimited. Rents growth in DC (even the best zip codes) over 15 years is way behind the maintenance and labor inflation
The same roof repair was $1k back in 2007 . It’s now 4 times more. But I cents charge 1690*4=6,760 for a one bedroom apartment. Nobody would rent it

Landlords aren't losing money over the long run with their rentals. At least ones with brains aren't.

I’m not saying I’m loosing money. I’m saying anyone who buys now would be making close to t bills returns which is not wise and uncompensated risk . Also waste of time

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

If you are paying those prices we are being taken advantage of.

If I was choosing cheaper appliances, roof, water heaters etc they would require even more maintenance. I tried. And I have multiple quotes from multiple contractors

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Read above. They stay with me, the landlord. Because you can’t increase rents unlimited. Rents growth in DC (even the best zip codes) over 15 years is way behind the maintenance and labor inflation
The same roof repair was $1k back in 2007 . It’s now 4 times more. But I cents charge 1690*4=6,760 for a one bedroom apartment. Nobody would rent it

Landlords aren't losing money over the long run with their rentals. At least ones with brains aren't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

What kind of house are you in. A few terro is under $20, hot water heater 2-4k.

TPO white reflective roof roofers out of town cheaper than it would be with DC company; Carrier AC ; Bradford White 80 gal water tanks in each apartment. They cost $5k without labor

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

If you are paying those prices we are being taken advantage of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also partially tax deductible

dp.. mortgage and property tax on my house is < $16K per year. We have a 2.75% rate on a $145K mortgage (huge down payment on a $1mil house). The standard deduction is more than what we can itemize with the house.

I'll be retiring soon, and we will sell our house and rent somewhere for a few years. If we can get 4% return on the $1mi sale (hopefully) , we should be good. Rental insurance is also cheaper than home owners insurance.

We will eventually buy a small place to age in, but the tax deduction advantage on owning a property is dependent on the scenario.

Speaking if renter insurance I pay $63 annual with GEICO (bundled with my car insurance). My HOI is $1.5k/year on comparable property I rent out

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

What kind of house are you in. A few terro is under $20, hot water heater 2-4k.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Read above. They stay with me, the landlord. Because you can’t increase rents unlimited. Rents growth in DC (even the best zip codes) over 15 years is way behind the maintenance and labor inflation
The same roof repair was $1k back in 2007 . It’s now 4 times more. But I cents charge 1690*4=6,760 for a one bedroom apartment. Nobody would rent it

In other words, while maintenance costs quadrupled since 2007, rents only increased by 27%.

I don’t know what else you need to know to understand that rent increases are not unlimited . Market dictates them.

If you can name states and cities where rents quadrupled since 2007 I’ll gladly go invest there through 1031 exchange

Anonymous wrote:Also partially tax deductible

dp.. mortgage and property tax on my house is < $16K per year. We have a 2.75% rate on a $145K mortgage (huge down payment on a $1mil house). The standard deduction is more than what we can itemize with the house.

I'll be retiring soon, and we will sell our house and rent somewhere for a few years. If we can get 4% return on the $1mi sale (hopefully) , we should be good. Rental insurance is also cheaper than home owners insurance.

We will eventually buy a small place to age in, but the tax deduction advantage on owning a property is dependent on the scenario.

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

As a homeowner I agree. But you have to compare it to the cost over time of renting a comparable house. Appliances have to be replaced, but not as often as most people assume. Over 30 years, I think renters come out ahead in years 1-10, it’s basically a push for years 10-20, and homeowners come out slightly ahead in years 20-30. Then, after the house is paid off, homeowners make huge financial gains on renters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Read above. They stay with me, the landlord. Because you can’t increase rents unlimited. Rents growth in DC (even the best zip codes) over 15 years is way behind the maintenance and labor inflation
The same roof repair was $1k back in 2007 . It’s now 4 times more. But I cents charge 1690*4=6,760 for a one bedroom apartment. Nobody would rent it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on

And who are these costs passed on to...

Anonymous wrote:People VASTYLY underestimated how much home maintenance costs. And ignoring maintenance does not solve the problem. So being able to afford your mortgage AND being able to afford the maintenance needed every 5 years is not always the same thing. Some people think buying a new home gets them out of this. But appliances almost never make it to 10 years these days. And each home has thousands and thousands of dollars of appliances.

I've lived in my house 12 years and I've had to replace every single appliance in it. Some of them TWICE! We don't have much yardwork and I'm so glad because just the inside is expensive.

Correct. One simple roof repair after a snow storm cost $4k (I just did it last week). It ate 2 monthly rents on a spot. In a rental you will have to replace appliances every 5 years if you want anyone rent it. Pest control call is $1k ; plumber call $200 for diagnostic only ; water heater replacement $7-15k . I can go on