Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

What’s honestly sickening to me is how tribal this has become.

So many people are reacting based on who they think they’re supposed to hate or defend, not on what Venezuelans have actually lived through. If your family had been there—if you’d watched them lose everything, if you’d worried daily about their safety, if you’d lived under that level of oppression—you would not be treating this like a thought experiment or a team sport.

For years, we’ve been sending remittances—boxes of food, medicine, money—just so family members could survive. Not thrive. Survive. That’s the reality people gloss over while posting hot takes from the comfort of their homes.

This outrage feels hollow when it ignores the human cost. When it erases the people who were beaten, silenced, imprisoned, or forced to flee. When it pretends moral purity matters more than ending suffering.

If this were about your parents, your siblings, your cousins living under that system, your tone would be very different.

This isn’t about left or right.
It’s about people who want their country—and their dignity—back.

Tribalism has rotted the conversation. And watching people minimize real pain because it doesn’t fit their politics is heartbreaking.

Many families and countries unfortunately live under oppressive regimes. You live in the US, and are writing as if no other country has these issues. They do. Why did Trump ‘help’ Venezuela? oil. Do I think you are going to stop needing to send remittance? Of course not. This was not for humanitarian reasons. Trump doesn’t care how the people of Venezuela have suffered.

Not OP, but I have family in Panama so have been hearing about the crisis for the past 10 years because when I visit there are so many Venezuelan refugees there. While it is true many families and countries live under oppressive regimes, the humanitarian disaster in Venezuela is on a whole other level.

7 MILLION people have fled- that is more than fled Syria. Over 20% of the population has had to flee Venezuela many because they couldn't even get one meal a day to eat. Kids have been starving in Venezuela. Venezuela’s bout with hunger is striking given that the nation had one of the highest standards of living in the region just a few decades ago thanks to its formerly abundant oil wealth.

There are plenty of people who hate Trump but are pleased something was finally done.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It makes me feel better that others can recognize the desperation in Venezuela. Surely Trump is going to benefit from this, but if there’s such a thing as trickle down economics, then the people will prosper too.
-OP

+1 Whatever your politics, can't we all just take pleasure in the excellent opportunity this will present President Trump to enrich himself personally?

Adding: it’s also not a “tribal” reaction, in my opinion.

Interesting that those criticizing the action about oil seem to forget that the oil is helping Putin attack Ukraine.

It’s understandable that Venezuelans in exile are having a very positive and emotional response to the removal of Maduro and the prospect of/hope for the change that they’ve been aching for for so long. It’s also understandable that those without ties to Venezuela and without that emotional load are looking at this with concern, shock, even horror at what it represents as an objective action. It’s also understandable to some extent that Venezuelans in exile may initially interpret this more detached reaction as criticism or “pro Maduro.” But there are real and legitimate reasons to be concerned about what the Trump administration is doing, what it’s intentions really are, what are the prospects of a good result, and what is the cost and impact to people in the US.

And as the dust settles, the positions of Venezuelans may start to look not so different from what a lot people are expressing here.

Yesterday was watching a Venezuelan professor on a tv show very emotionally attacking other speakers who were expressing concerns and criticisms. Already, this evening, I watched a different Venezuelan professor on CNN en Español saying that he had been a strong advocate of US intervention but he was now concerned about how things have and are evolving: the pushing aside of Gonzalez and Machado, the negotiations with Maduro’s VP, the obvious focus on asserting old-style US power over the country and its oil production.

Everything we know about Trump and the words and actions of the administration so far are very good reasons to be skeptical, critical, and concerned. Expressing that is not “pro Maduro” or dismissive of the Venezuelan people.

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

What’s honestly sickening to me is how tribal this has become.

So many people are reacting based on who they think they’re supposed to hate or defend, not on what Venezuelans have actually lived through. If your family had been there—if you’d watched them lose everything, if you’d worried daily about their safety, if you’d lived under that level of oppression—you would not be treating this like a thought experiment or a team sport.

For years, we’ve been sending remittances—boxes of food, medicine, money—just so family members could survive. Not thrive. Survive. That’s the reality people gloss over while posting hot takes from the comfort of their homes.

This outrage feels hollow when it ignores the human cost. When it erases the people who were beaten, silenced, imprisoned, or forced to flee. When it pretends moral purity matters more than ending suffering.

If this were about your parents, your siblings, your cousins living under that system, your tone would be very different.

This isn’t about left or right.
It’s about people who want their country—and their dignity—back.

Tribalism has rotted the conversation. And watching people minimize real pain because it doesn’t fit their politics is heartbreaking.

Why didn't your wife's family get out of Venezuela with all the other Venezuelans who fled to the US and ask for political asylum?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife is Venezuelan. She desperately wants to be able to go back someday—to visit safely, to see family, to recognize her own country again. Right now, that’s not possible. Much of her family is current or former military, and they want exactly what civilians want: freedom from an oppressive regime that destroyed their country from the inside.

She does not like Trump. Let’s get that out of the way. But let’s also stop pretending Venezuela is a Democrat vs. Republican issue. It’s not.

Under Maduro, people were run over by armored vehicles. Protesters were shot. Elections were a farce. The country became a narco-state while ordinary people starved or fled. That reality didn’t change depending on who was in the White House.

And for those suddenly clutching pearls about U.S. involvement—Biden continued dealings with Venezuelan oil despite repeated warnings from human-rights organizations. So please spare us the selective outrage.

China and Iran didn’t embed themselves in Venezuela out of goodwill. They wanted oil, minerals, leverage. Everyone knows this. Acting shocked now is disingenuous.

Here’s what’s missing from most of these takes: the majority of Venezuelans want the regime gone, even if that comes with hard compromises. They understand the cost because they’ve already paid it.

This isn’t about loving Trump.
It’s about wanting Venezuela back.

But what does this have to do with what’s best for Americans??????

There are literally Americans starving here.

It really is despicable to compare Venezuelans going hungry with hunger in America. No, it is absolutely not true there are literally starving Americans. You really should be ashamed of yourself. Does the Associated Press write article about school children in America who no longer get free lunch at school so they can't go to school because they are too hungry? Are there studies that show in one year in 2019 that the average citizen lost 20 pounds due to a lack of food. Parents are having to abandon their children and put them in orphanages because they can't feed them even one meal a day.

You watch videos of what is going on there and it reminds me of the Band-Aid Feed the World song and campaign.

Please watch this 2 minute video from the Wall Street Journal from 8 years ago "A Mother's Struggle to Feed Her Son in Venezuela". Her son is just turned a year and weighed eleven pounds. His heart stopped and he had to be revived. But be warned it is disturbing to watch how skinny he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO1hHwoNPns

From French news:
Malnutrition, one of the saddest faces of the Venezuelan crisis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcfVyyTDH0

How about from the BBC
Begging for food in Venezuela - BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1SVMLUSWso

Venezuela: Mothers giving away babies - BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAttn-5lM3Y

Venezuela once pioneered a series of successful reforms including a mass literacy campaign and guaranteed breakfast, snack and lunch for all students. Less than 20% of students now get any food at school. School officials are telling parents not to send hungry kids to school because they can't learn and it is torture to come to school and see other kids eating.

Anonymous wrote:My wife is Venezuelan. She desperately wants to be able to go back someday—to visit safely, to see family, to recognize her own country again. Right now, that’s not possible. Much of her family is current or former military, and they want exactly what civilians want: freedom from an oppressive regime that destroyed their country from the inside.

She does not like Trump. Let’s get that out of the way. But let’s also stop pretending Venezuela is a Democrat vs. Republican issue. It’s not.

Under Maduro, people were run over by armored vehicles. Protesters were shot. Elections were a farce. The country became a narco-state while ordinary people starved or fled. That reality didn’t change depending on who was in the White House.

And for those suddenly clutching pearls about U.S. involvement—Biden continued dealings with Venezuelan oil despite repeated warnings from human-rights organizations. So please spare us the selective outrage.

China and Iran didn’t embed themselves in Venezuela out of goodwill. They wanted oil, minerals, leverage. Everyone knows this. Acting shocked now is disingenuous.

Here’s what’s missing from most of these takes: the majority of Venezuelans want the regime gone, even if that comes with hard compromises. They understand the cost because they’ve already paid it.

This isn’t about loving Trump. It’s about wanting Venezuela back.

If Venezuela should kidnap Trump and Melania in retaliation personally I would cheer.

Your wife is reasonably safe here as long as ICE doesn't swoop in and send her to El Salvador

Anonymous wrote:Nobody argues that Maduro is a good guy. That doesn't mean we should address his criminality in a criminal way ourselves.

You basically are, though. You’ve been advocating for propping him up and keeping him in office. What is that not but de facto arguing he is a good guy?

Ok, when do we get someone to
Abduct trump and take USA back?

Maybe the US can send all the Venezuelans back now that we are taking over Venezuela.

That's what an America First president would do.

Anonymous wrote:OP AGAIN:
Two things can be true at the same time.

Yes, this is about human rights. About political prisoners, sham elections, protesters run over by armored vehicles, and families forced to flee or rely on remittances just to survive.

And yes, it’s also about international security and oil.

Venezuela sits on enormous resources. The U.S. helped build much of that oil infrastructure decades ago, when Venezuela was a functioning partner with one of the most advanced energy systems in the world. That system wasn’t “sanctioned into collapse”—it was gutted by corruption, politicization, and a regime that rewarded loyalty over competence.

Pretending China and Iran embedded themselves there out of altruism is laughable. They wanted oil, minerals, leverage, and influence in the Western Hemisphere. That matters whether you’re progressive or conservative.

This isn’t a Republican or Democratic issue. Biden continued Venezuelan oil dealings despite repeated human-rights warnings. Trump taking action doesn’t magically erase the reality on the ground.

For families like ours—sending remittances, shipping boxes of food and medicine, hoping one day it’s safe to return—this isn’t abstract. It’s lived experience.

You don’t have to deny strategic interests to care about human rights.
And you don’t have to ignore human suffering to acknowledge strategic interests.

Refusing to admit both is exactly how the conversation gets dumbed down.

Similar responses for immigration. It is not black and white. You can support limits on immigration without being racist. You can support the rule of law and support deportations of illegal aliens without being racist. Democrats are unable to deal with both attitudes

Anonymous wrote:My wife is Venezuelan. She desperately wants to be able to go back someday—to visit safely, to see family, to recognize her own country again. Right now, that’s not possible. Much of her family is current or former military, and they want exactly what civilians want: freedom from an oppressive regime that destroyed their country from the inside.

She does not like Trump. Let’s get that out of the way. But let’s also stop pretending Venezuela is a Democrat vs. Republican issue. It’s not.

Under Maduro, people were run over by armored vehicles. Protesters were shot. Elections were a farce. The country became a narco-state while ordinary people starved or fled. That reality didn’t change depending on who was in the White House.

And for those suddenly clutching pearls about U.S. involvement—Biden continued dealings with Venezuelan oil despite repeated warnings from human-rights organizations. So please spare us the selective outrage.

China and Iran didn’t embed themselves in Venezuela out of goodwill. They wanted oil, minerals, leverage. Everyone knows this. Acting shocked now is disingenuous.

Here’s what’s missing from most of these takes: the majority of Venezuelans want the regime gone, even if that comes with hard compromises. They understand the cost because they’ve already paid it.

This isn’t about loving Trump.
It’s about wanting Venezuela back.

Too much common sense for democrats and DCUM crowd.

They hate US workers and want cheap labor so they want as many illegal aliens as possible. That is why not a single democrat has come forward to support mandating e-verify. Not a single democrat .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry you don't have direct ties to Venezuela. Your wife does. And any information you have will be through the biased lens of someone else. If you're an American male, you're especially susceptible to the simp syndrome. I've seen it many times before. The "adopted" culture expert American white knight.

Venezuela is complicated. Its history and economy as a former European colony and banana republic make it so. Yours is just one side of it. Does your wife's experience suck atm? Sure. But Chávez and Maduro were elected and idolized by many for specific reasons, and those reasons will only amplify if that group is squeezed out again. Democracy is a wonderful idea, but it didn't do anything for the marginalized groups before Chávez.

You all keep saying this and it's simply inaccurate. Maduro was NOT elected in the last election (and perhaps not before). In fact, he lost badly and kept himself in power. Trump tried this and failed, meanwhile Maduro succeeded and became an "elected President" to the rest of the world. Make it make sense.

Well, if he was an elected president, this would be a more extreme violation of international law, because leaders of sovereign nations have immunity. At the same time, there is zero indication Trump plans ot install the person--Guiado--who was recognized as the elected president. I could hope that is the plan and this is just being kept under tight security wraps, but I doubt that given Trump's general recklessness.

Another argument for Trump's invasion is that it's really about his legacy. Ukraine--not accomplishments there. Gaza--a shaky ceasefire and people still dying. He doesn't really care about the longterm outcome in Venezuela whether it's democroacy or oil or gold. German tv made this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry you don't have direct ties to Venezuela. Your wife does. And any information you have will be through the biased lens of someone else. If you're an American male, you're especially susceptible to the simp syndrome. I've seen it many times before. The "adopted" culture expert American white knight.

Venezuela is complicated. Its history and economy as a former European colony and banana republic make it so. Yours is just one side of it. Does your wife's experience suck atm? Sure. But Chávez and Maduro were elected and idolized by many for specific reasons, and those reasons will only amplify if that group is squeezed out again. Democracy is a wonderful idea, but it didn't do anything for the marginalized groups before Chávez.

You all keep saying this and it's simply inaccurate. Maduro was NOT elected in the last election (and perhaps not before). In fact, he lost badly and kept himself in power. Trump tried this and failed, meanwhile Maduro succeeded and became an "elected President" to the rest of the world. Make it make sense.

You are arguing like you're an American.

America and Venezuela are not the same. Many of the problems in Venezuela are in fact because of decades of American influence. If the world imposed brutal sanctions on America for decades, and directly agitated for Americans to suffer, what do you think would happen in America? You have no understanding of postcolonial economies and society vis-a-vis education, employment, civil rights, and discrimination among various groups that were favored (and disfavored) during the colonial caste systems that Europeans imposed. Hint: it's usually the lighter skinned ones who were the "house" servants.

The US caused the Venezuelan economy to collapse, forced a humanitarian crisis, murdered its "drug dealer" citizens, and then turned around and accused a "failed" economy of committing abuses, many of which would not have happened if the US hadn't forced (for decades) the situation in the first place.

The US has repeated this pattern dozens of times in the 20th and 21st century. This is nothing new. Every leader is not perfect. Some are evil. But most don't cause humanitarian or economic crises on their own. It's usually America at the tip of that sword. Do some research.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a good list of countries that we can invade to help overthrow oppressive regimes? While we are at it, maybe even add those countries that are committing human rights violations too.

North Korea. I'm Korean American. I'd love to see the two Koreas be unified in my lifetime (I'm 55).

But, they don't have anything the US wants, certainly not a huge cache of oil reserves.

Iran maybe?
Certainly not Russia as they have the nukes.
Certainly not China as they are too powerful.

Iran is too close to other countries that would start a war in the ME which would lead to WWIII. I mean, if that area is the cradle of civilization, maybe it would be fitting for civilization to be wiped out by a war in the ME, all where it started.

I also think China, Russia, and Iran have citizens that for the most part, support their governments so it probably won’t go over well.