Anonymous wrote:Drop the rope and simplify to doing only the things you want to do because you value them.

Yep. This is the way.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s unconscious, but this is about establishing power in the relationship. No modern man would say to his wife “I’m the leader of this household,” but they communicate in this more subtle, non-verbal way.
By framing the relationship in a way where she just does things, but he has to be asked to do normal things like clean the house, watch the kids, prepare food, or buy Christmas presents, he (likely unconsciously) asserts that he is the more powerful person in the relationship without actually having to say it.

That’s what you are resentful about, OP. It isn’t the “mental load.” It’s that he is treating you as “lesser than” he is.

OP here. He definitely treats me as though I’m less than him in many ways.

Your only option is to push back. Channel your husband’s energy. It’s working for him, it can work for yoo, too. I lived all of this 15 years ago and FF and my kids are great young adults, I’m still married (happily!), and our marriage is soooo much more equitable. PUSH BACK

Yep. This is the game. Or, to avoid riling the PP who is triggered by that framing, the "dance".

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone else? Not sure if this is a vent or what.

I’m expected or at least need to earn a living and contribute to maintain our lifestyle

But all the planning is on me. He hasn’t volunteered to do anything for Christmas. He’s never going to volunteer. I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all. I’m supposed to be fortunate he will contribute if asked. We both have jobs that are just as demanding.

I’m frustrated and there is not a solution. Regret getting married and signing up for this. I’ve talked to him and nothing will change. I vacillate between thinking he’s incompetent and he is taking advantage of me.

When can I be free of this? Never?

Really? He did nothing? Didn’t get the tree? Put up lights? Go to the store to buy a few presents?

Not OP, but I was married to this same brand of "man" once. Overgrown children in need of a mother, those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change you expectations or just get a divorce

OP here. Meaning accept I am solely responsible for the mental load?

Not PP but I think your options are:

1) Divorce. He either will or won't get some custody and either will or won't step up when he has the kids. There are a lot of unknowns here, including the biggest, to me, that he might start a second family.

2) Acknowledge and accept that this is who you are married to. I think this is what the PP is saying. You aren't going to change him, so find a way to live with what you've got (or, rather, don't have). Work to find a way to drop the resentment of carrying the mental load, find ways to lighten your load, etc.

3) Try to fix it. I think this option is where most people get stuck because this is either going to work or not, but being here is like being in purgatory and you don't want to be here forever. Therapy, individually and as a couple, would be the best way to go here, and it requires a lot of humility, willingness to be uncomfortable, and actual work (on both sides). I would try this path first BUT would do so with a timeline in mind. After X months, option 1 or 2 is where you need to be if you cannot find a place where you both agree.

For what it's worth, I found myself at a point where my otherwise great husband was indeed taking advantage of the fact that I was carrying more of the mental load. We both work full-time and have approximately equal jobs and salaries. Sometimes someone earns more, and sometimes someone's job is more demanding, but over the 15 years we've been married, it has probably been about even when averaged out. However, we had fallen into a place where I felt more of the load was on me, whether because I had consciously or unconsciously taken it on or he had consciously or unconsciously dumped it on me or a mix of the two. I talked to him about it, he acknowledged my feelings, and we found a way to work it out. We still have to have conversations about it sometimes but it's a lot easier to make small course corrections than it is to overhaul your entire marriage/family dynamic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s unconscious, but this is about establishing power in the relationship. No modern man would say to his wife “I’m the leader of this household,” but they communicate in this more subtle, non-verbal way.
By framing the relationship in a way where she just does things, but he has to be asked to do normal things like clean the house, watch the kids, prepare food, or buy Christmas presents, he (likely unconsciously) asserts that he is the more powerful person in the relationship without actually having to say it.

That’s what you are resentful about, OP. It isn’t the “mental load.” It’s that he is treating you as “lesser than” he is.

OP here. He definitely treats me as though I’m less than him in many ways.

And then you buy into it and complain and resent. You have to flip that switch, if only in your own head. You win. You're the better parent. Stop the whole nonsense internally. Then, if/when he treats you like you're less than, just look at him like the lost little puppy he must be and pat him on the cute little stupid head.

Do only what works for you, including teaching your children to go along with it and be grateful for whatever holiday magic you manage. Lower everyone's expectations. If your spouse balks, he's welcome to pick up the slack. If he gives you grief, invite him to fix whatever he's upset about, like a damned adult.

You have to opt out of this whole game if you don't want to play this game. Otherwise, not only are you playing, you're probably gonna lose.

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Then men whine about the things that aren’t done.

I gave up the big Christmas dinner and you’d think I’d sent the dog upstate the way my husband whined. (The kids loved having pancakes and cocoa and smores by the fireplace.)

Women can’t win.

So let him whine.

If whining is dictating your behavior, set a boundary for yourself.

Yes but where women lose out is that we care about our children. Most women won’t accept our kids not receiving gifts on Christmas or not having wrapped presents. We sacrifice ourselves to take care of our children.

I get this, but my kids were chuffed as nuts the year I decided all their presents go in one, giant bag. And when we cut back on the number of presents to save money, they didn't complain or even seem to notice much. There's a difference between putting in the extra work to take care of our kids and sacrificing our sanity to do it some sort of way without questioning whether or not that way actually works.

Christmas isn't about a tree, or a meal, or presents. Make it work for you, however that looks, and let go of the expectations.

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Anonymous wrote: Really? He did nothing? Didn’t get the tree? Put up lights? Go to the store to buy a few presents?

He does what he is asked to do:

"I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all."

OP resents having to ask, to "handle it".

If he does what you ask, ask him to handle it. And allow him to handle it.

Sounds like you have asserted your dominance and he’s used to you delegating tasks in your leadership role. When did you become the de facto leader in the home? Why did you take that on?

I'm a PP not OP. Just clarifying from OPs original post.

The question stands. How did the roles and responsibilities evolve in the relationship? Did OP assert herself as head in the beginning and her husband took a backseat and just let her call the shots?

Yes, this is what is going on. DH waits for tasks to be delegated because OP clearly likes the control. If DH tried to take initiative and plan then there would be a coordination problem to solve with OP. OP would possibly be more PO’d than she is now.

OP, you could just delegate a larger task. Like “get the presents for the kids.” But let’s face it, there’s a reason he’s settled in to this following role and it’s really not just about him — it’s about the dynamic between the two of you.

As far as, are you stuck with this? Yes, you are — you’re stuck with him, but you’re also stuck with yourself.

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Anonymous wrote:Women in your life who love you warned you, gave you the truth.

Are you in a non-consensual or arranged marriage?

OP has done pretty well in her choice of DH compared to a lot of women. I bet many women who love her cannot even get their DHs to do what hers does.

Because the standard for men is that low.

Or prrhaps the standard for women is too high? Who cares about Christmas when work is killing you? A plastic tree from Walmart and the first doll or car you can grab from there is just fine.

But men want all those things. They just don't want to do it

They want them, but they don't need them. Neither do women. Women can let some of it go if it will reduce their stress.

Then men whine about the things that aren’t done.

I gave up the big Christmas dinner and you’d think I’d sent the dog upstate the way my husband whined. (The kids loved having pancakes and cocoa and smores by the fireplace.)

Women can’t win.

This. The whole "if it's important to you, YOU can do it" approach just doesn't register for a lot of them. Treat it like a business negotiation. "If it's important to you that I do this, what are you going to do for me?" The expectation is unreasonable, and they just. don't. get it.

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a rant my DW would write but what she wouldn’t include is that I take care of our kids while she travels for work without issue and without help at home; pull in 500k per year and am an active parent and participant in the marriage. She also won’t tell you that she has a good sex life and her husband doesn’t drink or use drugs. She’s just pissed off that she has to work and also is the default parent.

Not drinking or using drugs, and caring for your own kids, is literally the bare minimum. Not even the bare minimum, that’s just basic adulting.

Step it up at home. Why should she work AND be the default parent? Parenting should be split 50/50.

+1

You don't get extra credit for fulfilling basic adult responsibilities.

PP is the perfect example of why so many women are miserable.

Women are miserable because they don't fawn over mediocre men doing the minimum?

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Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I love this reframing of this PP.

Thanks! It also stops me from feeling guilty for "asking my partner to help". I do enough, and I deserve time off.

To the pp who says it's terrible, and there are no 'winners', sure, sure. But a little friendly competition tends to increase performance across the board. Maybe instead of making excuses for crap behavior, it could inspire a spouse to do more. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. Go stew in your resentments. Not my life, not my problem. :mrgreen:

Farming it competitively like that just creates an awful dynamic for kids. You do you, though. It doesn't really sound "friendly", no matter how you try to reframe it.

You're really upset about it, which means you should probably look at why another person's take got under your skin this way. Stewing in your resentments isn't good for the kids either. Whatever you choose, you need to find a way to make it work. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

Drop the rope and simplify to doing only the things you want to do because you value them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Really? He did nothing? Didn’t get the tree? Put up lights? Go to the store to buy a few presents?

He does what he is asked to do:

"I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all."

OP resents having to ask, to "handle it".

If he does what you ask, ask him to handle it. And allow him to handle it.

Sounds like you have asserted your dominance and he’s used to you delegating tasks in your leadership role. When did you become the de facto leader in the home? Why did you take that on?

I'm a PP not OP. Just clarifying from OPs original post.

The question stands. How did the roles and responsibilities evolve in the relationship? Did OP assert herself as head in the beginning and her husband took a backseat and just let her call the shots?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Really? He did nothing? Didn’t get the tree? Put up lights? Go to the store to buy a few presents?

He does what he is asked to do:

"I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all."

OP resents having to ask, to "handle it".

If he does what you ask, ask him to handle it. And allow him to handle it.

Sounds like you have asserted your dominance and he’s used to you delegating tasks in your leadership role. When did you become the de facto leader in the home? Why did you take that on?

I'm a PP not OP. Just clarifying from OPs original post.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change you expectations or just get a divorce

OP here. Meaning accept I am solely responsible for the mental load?

DP

Yes your mental load is your responsibility.

So my husband has absolutely no responsibility to make sure his kids receive gifts from Santa, there is a Christmas tree and groceries to eat on the 25th?

You’re suggesting this should all be on me?

Your husbands mental load is his responsibility.

If your mental loads are at capacity, prioritize the groceries.

Why am I expected to be in charge of the groceries…why can’t he be?

I'm not sure this helps you, but DH has weaponized incompetence and our child would probably die or definitely not thrive under his care. So I buy groceries and cook good meals for me and DS, but because DH refuses to participate, he goes to KFC. His choice.