Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

I have already said this but I made my son always invite the boys until sixth. I was always busy juggling my three kids and their many activities and our whole family social plans that I didn’t take a tally of who was invited from which class when my kids went to parties.

I have also said that the party didn’t make the kids be friends. Much more than a birthday party invitation, on everyday hangouts, kids on the periphery often feel left out. I don’t think the kid who isn’t even in the friend group at all who isn’t friends at all would feel bad.

I am juggling elementary along with teenagers. Homecoming was a whole other thing. We were the homecoming get ready house. Moms I knew from elementary were trying to get the kids together for homecoming. Halloween and trick or treating was a big deal last year in middle school where my son was invited and others were not.

It’s not about you it’s about the 2 girls in her class who are being excluded by your daughter. They will know they were excluded. It doesn’t matter what their moms know or don’t know. It’s not about you and whatever social juggling you and other parents are doing for their kids. It’s truly about one thing only which is “don’t invite all the girls in the class except 2”.

The rest is just random stuff you’re repeating about your sons stuff from years ago that’s not relevant

It is not random. In saying it is worse for a kid who is friends and to be not invited than to not be invited when you are not friends at all.

It is also not socially acceptable to, under any circumstances at all, invite almost all of the kids from a class or an activity and exclude 1 or 2. That's the only constant here. The rest is just noise. But you don't care you're just doing to do what you want which is exclude those 2 girls and convince yourself that those two 9 year old girls don't care that they haven't been invited to a single party this year by any of the girls in your daughter's class and your daughter is just doing what everyone else is doing. But your daughter is doing it worse, because the other girls followed the rule of inviting half of the girls only it sounds like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

I have already said this but I made my son always invite the boys until sixth. I was always busy juggling my three kids and their many activities and our whole family social plans that I didn’t take a tally of who was invited from which class when my kids went to parties.

I have also said that the party didn’t make the kids be friends. Much more than a birthday party invitation, on everyday hangouts, kids on the periphery often feel left out. I don’t think the kid who isn’t even in the friend group at all who isn’t friends at all would feel bad.

I am juggling elementary along with teenagers. Homecoming was a whole other thing. We were the homecoming get ready house. Moms I knew from elementary were trying to get the kids together for homecoming. Halloween and trick or treating was a big deal last year in middle school where my son was invited and others were not.

It’s not about you it’s about the 2 girls in her class who are being excluded by your daughter. They will know they were excluded. It doesn’t matter what their moms know or don’t know. It’s not about you and whatever social juggling you and other parents are doing for their kids. It’s truly about one thing only which is “don’t invite all the girls in the class except 2”.

The rest is just random stuff you’re repeating about your sons stuff from years ago that’s not relevant

It is not random. In saying it is worse for a kid who is friends and to be not invited than to not be invited when you are not friends at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

I have already said this but I made my son always invite the boys until sixth. I was always busy juggling my three kids and their many activities and our whole family social plans that I didn’t take a tally of who was invited from which class when my kids went to parties.

I have also said that the party didn’t make the kids be friends. Much more than a birthday party invitation, on everyday hangouts, kids on the periphery often feel left out. I don’t think the kid who isn’t even in the friend group at all who isn’t friends at all would feel bad.

I am juggling elementary along with teenagers. Homecoming was a whole other thing. We were the homecoming get ready house. Moms I knew from elementary were trying to get the kids together for homecoming. Halloween and trick or treating was a big deal last year in middle school where my son was invited and others were not.

It’s not about you it’s about the 2 girls in her class who are being excluded by your daughter. They will know they were excluded. It doesn’t matter what their moms know or don’t know. It’s not about you and whatever social juggling you and other parents are doing for their kids. It’s truly about one thing only which is “don’t invite all the girls in the class except 2”.

The rest is just random stuff you’re repeating about your sons stuff from years ago that’s not relevant

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine to leave people out. It’s not fine to leave only a few people out. I don’t know what hard about this.

So last year, I made her invite the girl who was mean to her, not friends who told her she was not invited to her party because they aren’t friends. I still made her invite her and they couldn’t come. I thought it was cruel to leave one person out even if the girl is mean to DD.

The year before we included the boys who are disruptive and DD didn’t want. We invited the whole class.

I don’t think anyone actually answered my question on when to stop inviting everyone. DD is in third grade.

I made my son invite everyone until sixth grade.

So you just taught her that you should still interact with people who are mean to you. Great lesson for both kids. It’s a birthday party not an organ donation.

This! I was relentlessly bullied by a girl in elementary school. If my mother had insisted that I invite her, I would rather have forgone the party. Your child has 364 days of the year to suck it up and be nice to people who aren’t nice to her. Don’t make her do it on her birthday.

I don’t think the girl bullied my daughter. She just was mean on a few occasions and told my daughter she wasn’t invited to her birthday party because they were not friends. They are not in the same class this year. I originally did not invite that girl last year and added her last minute because it felt wrong to not invite one girl.

On the way to school I told DD to take girls off the list then and she didn’t want to take girls out either. I’m just going to let her invite who she wants whether she knows them from this year or from an activity.

I wrote several times I made my son invite all the kids through sixth grade and also made him invite full sports teams through middle school. I was at a sporting event yesterday and saw how he does not interact with everyone. I’m not making him invite anyone this year nor am I going to make my daughter. Everyone seems to agree by middle school you can invite who you want. My almost 9 year old also has clear friends.

Again- girls who aren't in her class don't matter here. Invite them, or dont. (Certainly if they are mean to her, don't!!). The only thing anyone is urging you to do is regarding the 10 girls in her class. Inviting only 8 of them is really mean, and tacky, and low class. Inviting all 10 is fine, inviting only 5 or less is fine. Instilling this in your daughter is actually important. I know you're being willfully obtuse about what people are telling you by continually bringing up your son (which is irrelevant) and continually bringing up these means girls from years past (which is irrelevant). The only thing there is consensus on is that you really should not leave out 2 out of 10 girls in her class. Nobody with any hint of good breeding does this. But if you want to be trashy and you want your daughter to learn to be trashy too, then go for it.

NP. Frankly, I think phrases like "low class," "tacky," and "trashy" mark the user as such. I would never take advice from anyone who thought in those terms.

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How would you describe a grown woman who says her daughter is allowed to leave out just 2 girls in the class for no reason other than "we aren't really friends", and doubles down defending this decision with the reasoning "well my daughter has been to a TON of parties already this year and everyone else leaves those 2 girls out too". Tacky, trashy, and low class are kind of apt. I guess you could go with mean instead but it's not just mean, it's mean with an undercurrent of striver behavior, not wanting her daughter to be the only one that invited the losers. If that's not low class, then what is?

You are looking at it wrong. Each party has 5-25 kids and yes, those two girls weren’t at any of them. The other parties are from friends at the same school, not necessarily the same class. This is fourth year of being in a class. I’m not sure being placed in the same homeroom class means you must be invited to a birthday party. They switch for classes so kids are mixed all day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

I have already said this but I made my son always invite the boys until sixth. I was always busy juggling my three kids and their many activities and our whole family social plans that I didn’t take a tally of who was invited from which class when my kids went to parties.

I have also said that the party didn’t make the kids be friends. Much more than a birthday party invitation, on everyday hangouts, kids on the periphery often feel left out. I don’t think the kid who isn’t even in the friend group at all who isn’t friends at all would feel bad.

I am juggling elementary along with teenagers. Homecoming was a whole other thing. We were the homecoming get ready house. Moms I knew from elementary were trying to get the kids together for homecoming. Halloween and trick or treating was a big deal last year in middle school where my son was invited and others were not.

It’s not about you it’s about the 2 girls in her class who are being excluded by your daughter. They will know they were excluded. It doesn’t matter what their moms know or don’t know. It’s not about you and whatever social juggling you and other parents are doing for their kids. It’s truly about one thing only which is “don’t invite all the girls in the class except 2”.

The rest is just random stuff you’re repeating about your sons stuff from years ago that’s not relevant

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine to leave people out. It’s not fine to leave only a few people out. I don’t know what hard about this.

So last year, I made her invite the girl who was mean to her, not friends who told her she was not invited to her party because they aren’t friends. I still made her invite her and they couldn’t come. I thought it was cruel to leave one person out even if the girl is mean to DD.

The year before we included the boys who are disruptive and DD didn’t want. We invited the whole class.

I don’t think anyone actually answered my question on when to stop inviting everyone. DD is in third grade.

I made my son invite everyone until sixth grade.

So you just taught her that you should still interact with people who are mean to you. Great lesson for both kids. It’s a birthday party not an organ donation.

This! I was relentlessly bullied by a girl in elementary school. If my mother had insisted that I invite her, I would rather have forgone the party. Your child has 364 days of the year to suck it up and be nice to people who aren’t nice to her. Don’t make her do it on her birthday.

I don’t think the girl bullied my daughter. She just was mean on a few occasions and told my daughter she wasn’t invited to her birthday party because they were not friends. They are not in the same class this year. I originally did not invite that girl last year and added her last minute because it felt wrong to not invite one girl.

On the way to school I told DD to take girls off the list then and she didn’t want to take girls out either. I’m just going to let her invite who she wants whether she knows them from this year or from an activity.

I wrote several times I made my son invite all the kids through sixth grade and also made him invite full sports teams through middle school. I was at a sporting event yesterday and saw how he does not interact with everyone. I’m not making him invite anyone this year nor am I going to make my daughter. Everyone seems to agree by middle school you can invite who you want. My almost 9 year old also has clear friends.

Again- girls who aren't in her class don't matter here. Invite them, or dont. (Certainly if they are mean to her, don't!!). The only thing anyone is urging you to do is regarding the 10 girls in her class. Inviting only 8 of them is really mean, and tacky, and low class. Inviting all 10 is fine, inviting only 5 or less is fine. Instilling this in your daughter is actually important. I know you're being willfully obtuse about what people are telling you by continually bringing up your son (which is irrelevant) and continually bringing up these means girls from years past (which is irrelevant). The only thing there is consensus on is that you really should not leave out 2 out of 10 girls in her class. Nobody with any hint of good breeding does this. But if you want to be trashy and you want your daughter to learn to be trashy too, then go for it.

NP. Frankly, I think phrases like "low class," "tacky," and "trashy" mark the user as such. I would never take advice from anyone who thought in those terms.

.

How would you describe a grown woman who says her daughter is allowed to leave out just 2 girls in the class for no reason other than "we aren't really friends", and doubles down defending this decision with the reasoning "well my daughter has been to a TON of parties already this year and everyone else leaves those 2 girls out too". Tacky, trashy, and low class are kind of apt. I guess you could go with mean instead but it's not just mean, it's mean with an undercurrent of striver behavior, not wanting her daughter to be the only one that invited the losers. If that's not low class, then what is?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

I have already said this but I made my son always invite the boys until sixth. I was always busy juggling my three kids and their many activities and our whole family social plans that I didn’t take a tally of who was invited from which class when my kids went to parties.

I have also said that the party didn’t make the kids be friends. Much more than a birthday party invitation, on everyday hangouts, kids on the periphery often feel left out. I don’t think the kid who isn’t even in the friend group at all who isn’t friends at all would feel bad.

I am juggling elementary along with teenagers. Homecoming was a whole other thing. We were the homecoming get ready house. Moms I knew from elementary were trying to get the kids together for homecoming. Halloween and trick or treating was a big deal last year in middle school where my son was invited and others were not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.

If you can’t grasp the concept of “whole class, vs just closest friends, are both fine” and “whole class except for 1 or 2 girls my daughter says never get invited to anything anyways, is NOT fine” then you are beyond help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many classes are there per grade at your school, OP? In third grade - or really whenever - a perfectly fine guest-list "criteria" is "my DD's close friends". Are you saying that the 8 girls from her class happen to be her close friends that she would choose as her top 8 invites? Are there no other classes in her grade? I doubt it! It sounds like your guest-list criteria is "the class except the people we don't like." Change the criteria altogether to her closest friends in the grade.

Our school has four classes per grade. When my DD was in third grade, the guest list to her party was her 15 closest friends. Since kids get jumbled up into new classes every year, she was good friends with kids in each of the four classes. So the guess list consisted of a few girls from each of the four classes, one pre-school lasting friend who goes to a different school, and two kids at yet another schools that she went to summer camp with.

Have your DD just come up with a list of her closest friends regardless of which class they are in.

There are 5 classes in her grade. Her class has more boys than girls. Her original guest list had 15 people including 7 girls in her class. The other 8 include neighbors who are in different grades and former close friends from former classes from her younger grades.

She is close friends with 4 girls in her class and not as close friends with 3. I actually suggested taking out the not as close 3 friends and she wanted them.

Anonymous wrote:How many classes are there per grade at your school, OP? In third grade - or really whenever - a perfectly fine guest-list "criteria" is "my DD's close friends". Are you saying that the 8 girls from her class happen to be her close friends that she would choose as her top 8 invites? Are there no other classes in her grade? I doubt it! It sounds like your guest-list criteria is "the class except the people we don't like." Change the criteria altogether to her closest friends in the grade.

Our school has four classes per grade. When my DD was in third grade, the guest list to her party was her 15 closest friends. Since kids get jumbled up into new classes every year, she was good friends with kids in each of the four classes. So the guess list consisted of a few girls from each of the four classes, one pre-school lasting friend who goes to a different school, and two kids at yet another schools that she went to summer camp with.

Have your DD just come up with a list of her closest friends regardless of which class they are in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At no age is it okay to invite all the girls in your class but two. If you end up at a tiny high school with 15 girls in your grade, it would not be okay to invite 13 of them to your 18th birthday.

This. We stopped inviting all the girls on class by then, but we were inviting less than half. We stopped inviting kids of my friends well before 9. That was really just preschool.

The OP has a really weird fixation on wanting to control who her daughter invites on one hand- like, the forcing her to invite a girl who was outwardly mean to her but whose mother the OP wants to remain on good terms with for social heirarchy reasons, when that girl isn't even in her class. And the trying to force her to invite the children of the OP and OP's DH's friends even when her daughter pushes back. That stuff is weird. And then on the flip side, she throws up her hands and says "but she never really plays with those girls, and the other girls in class also left them out, so, it seems like it's the normal thing to do, to leave out those 2 girls!" about her classmates. It seems like OP only cares about hurting the feelings of important adult friends of hers, and doesn't care in the slightest about hurting the feelings of children whose parents she doesn't know.

I actually now agree with my daughter and will let her invite who she wants on her birthday. I would not want people I have zero relationship with at my birthday either.

Making my son invite those boys in fifth and sixth grade did not make them friends. They didn’t talk then and still don’t talk now. I actually met the mom of one of those boys I forced my son to invite. They didn’t come to the party. The mom didn’t know who my son was. I didn’t recognize the mom because I never met her before. I only recognized her son’s name because my son didn’t want to invite him in sixth grade and I forced him. I don’t know why I made it such a big deal to invite him, the same way I’m trying to force my daughter to invite these two girls.