Med school has gotten so stressful that so many of the students are on some neuro medication. For anxiety/depression.

This is insane especially since they are known to cause dementia. Do we want doctors with impaired neuro function?

Yes, the kids need to be smart and motivated but the current system is not good. Why do we want our doctors to not have good health?

Anonymous wrote:Why is hundreds of shadowing hours in college necessary to be a good doctor?

Foreign medical grads don’t have that and a PP says they make great doctors. Current gen X and baby boomer doctors didn’t have that and they are treating most patients currently.

Not required. Don’t do it if you don’t think it’s necessary.

Why is hundreds of shadowing hours in college necessary to be a good doctor?

Foreign medical grads don’t have that and a PP says they make great doctors. Current gen X and baby boomer doctors didn’t have that and they are treating most patients currently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kid who went to Ivy now in medical school.

It was NOT easy to get research positions.

Your think that was hard. Try getting one from a state Uni.

I think it’s hard for lots of kids. Just wanted to give perspective on posts upthread that made it sound time-consuming, but easy to get.

That was not accurate for my kid or her friends despite applying widely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a family reunion recently where my cousins nice, bright hs senior was not only telling people (who asked about college plans) that they were pre-med but also that they were “going to go into trauma surgery.”

This is not a criticism of the teen (who is obviously just a kid) but I do think this dynamic of talking about being a pre-med and trauma surgeon in waiting, etc before you’ve taken orgo is part of the problem.

Kids feel like changing course (if orgo turns out to be insurmountable or they don’t get in two go rounds and aren’t willing to consider DO school) is a loss of standing (that they haven’t achieved yet but have been kind of getting on loan by talking about their plans) and that sucks!

Meh. When I was 6 I told everyone I was going to be a veterinarian. I'm not a veterinarian.

Yes, but if you were a college junior saying it (and saying it, ad nauseum) the dynamic would be different.

The college junior doesn't know what they don't know. They will figure out, once they get to med school, if they do, that they probably don't want to be a "trauma surgeon." Or that even if they do, that it is a very, very tough match that they probably won't make.

Like I said, I didn't become a vet, lol (good thing I didn't too, because that's a rough job). But I did become a lawyer. I went to law school fulling intending to do anti-death penalty work. I came out a tax attorney. It's fine to think you know what you want and shift gears later. That is part of being young. And a "college junior" is young.

I agree it’s very young and they don’t know what they don’t know. I guess my point is more that it would be nice if we would all take what kids (including clllege kids) say with a low key “great, that sounds good” and keep it moving attitude.

Because the kids ( being kids) say things and then their mom (usually) is often proud and mildly braggy which the kid picks up on and so feels more invested in the stated plan (which they have no idea if they are suited to or would like) so they double down and therefore mom and dad amp up the kudos and (good natured) pride in the prospective accomplishments, etc.

I just wish kids didn’t feel at the age of 20 or 21 it was some type of failing to say, you know what, on second thought maybe I’ll look into other options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a family reunion recently where my cousins nice, bright hs senior was not only telling people (who asked about college plans) that they were pre-med but also that they were “going to go into trauma surgery.”

This is not a criticism of the teen (who is obviously just a kid) but I do think this dynamic of talking about being a pre-med and trauma surgeon in waiting, etc before you’ve taken orgo is part of the problem.

Kids feel like changing course (if orgo turns out to be insurmountable or they don’t get in two go rounds and aren’t willing to consider DO school) is a loss of standing (that they haven’t achieved yet but have been kind of getting on loan by talking about their plans) and that sucks!

Meh. When I was 6 I told everyone I was going to be a veterinarian. I'm not a veterinarian.

Yes, but if you were a college junior saying it (and saying it, ad nauseum) the dynamic would be different.

The college junior doesn't know what they don't know. They will figure out, once they get to med school, if they do, that they probably don't want to be a "trauma surgeon." Or that even if they do, that it is a very, very tough match that they probably won't make.

Like I said, I didn't become a vet, lol (good thing I didn't too, because that's a rough job). But I did become a lawyer. I went to law school fulling intending to do anti-death penalty work. I came out a tax attorney. It's fine to think you know what you want and shift gears later. That is part of being young. And a "college junior" is young.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a family reunion recently where my cousins nice, bright hs senior was not only telling people (who asked about college plans) that they were pre-med but also that they were “going to go into trauma surgery.”

This is not a criticism of the teen (who is obviously just a kid) but I do think this dynamic of talking about being a pre-med and trauma surgeon in waiting, etc before you’ve taken orgo is part of the problem.

Kids feel like changing course (if orgo turns out to be insurmountable or they don’t get in two go rounds and aren’t willing to consider DO school) is a loss of standing (that they haven’t achieved yet but have been kind of getting on loan by talking about their plans) and that sucks!

Meh. When I was 6 I told everyone I was going to be a veterinarian. I'm not a veterinarian.

Yes, but if you were a college junior saying it (and saying it, ad nauseum) the dynamic would be different.

Anonymous wrote:I went to a family reunion recently where my cousins nice, bright hs senior was not only telling people (who asked about college plans) that they were pre-med but also that they were “going to go into trauma surgery.”

This is not a criticism of the teen (who is obviously just a kid) but I do think this dynamic of talking about being a pre-med and trauma surgeon in waiting, etc before you’ve taken orgo is part of the problem.

Kids feel like changing course (if orgo turns out to be insurmountable or they don’t get in two go rounds and aren’t willing to consider DO school) is a loss of standing (that they haven’t achieved yet but have been kind of getting on loan by talking about their plans) and that sucks!

Meh. When I was 6 I told everyone I was going to be a veterinarian. I'm not a veterinarian.

I went to a family reunion recently where my cousins nice, bright hs senior was not only telling people (who asked about college plans) that they were pre-med but also that they were “going to go into trauma surgery.”

This is not a criticism of the teen (who is obviously just a kid) but I do think this dynamic of talking about being a pre-med and trauma surgeon in waiting, etc before you’ve taken orgo is part of the problem.

Kids feel like changing course (if orgo turns out to be insurmountable or they don’t get in two go rounds and aren’t willing to consider DO school) is a loss of standing (that they haven’t achieved yet but have been kind of getting on loan by talking about their plans) and that sucks!

Anonymous wrote:44% of applicants get a spot. Among those that don’t, some take a year to get more relevant experience, some go the DO route and some do Caribbean or hang it up.

The admission rate is higher than when I applied and to me, 44% admission (with other roads in for those who don’t get in their first go round) doesn’t seem too bad.

It’s stressful to the young adults going through the application process for sure but guess what else is stressful? Med school, residency, and a career in medicine!

Is a 44% admission rate for a highly sought after, respected, well paid job so shocking?

I agree 44 isn't bad and I think most reasonable people would agree with you. But that also means 56% of applicants have to reexam their paths after so many years working towards goal of becoming doctors. That, i think, is a daunting situation.

44% of applicants get a spot. Among those that don’t, some take a year to get more relevant experience, some go the DO route and some do Caribbean or hang it up.

The admission rate is higher than when I applied and to me, 44% admission (with other roads in for those who don’t get in their first go round) doesn’t seem too bad.

It’s stressful to the young adults going through the application process for sure but guess what else is stressful? Med school, residency, and a career in medicine!

Is a 44% admission rate for a highly sought after, respected, well paid job so shocking?

Anonymous wrote:Kid who went to Ivy now in medical school.

It was NOT easy to get research positions.

Your think that was hard. Try getting one from a state Uni.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have 3 years of heavily focused undergrad followed by a year of a related medical experience (paid internship) and then med school.

And they need to let more kids into med school. We need more American-educated doctors.

Sigh. This was addressed above. It's not as simple as simply admitting more students. Could you pack more into the lecture halls? Sure (especially now that lots of students don't go to lecture, it's recorded and many watch it ... or plan to anyway ... later). But there simply are not enough rotation sites or residency sites. Medical training is a lot more than sitting in a class room.

Then why do we need so many foreign doctors? Why don’t we invest and make this career more feasible for Americans?

Foreign doctors often have to do additional training or testing here.

Going to a Caribbean medical school is a terrible idea (was mentioned above).

This is what I don’t understand. All these foreign educated doctors are doing reaidencies in the U.S.? How can you say there aren’t enough residencies spots to add more slots to American med schools? Couldn’t some of those residencies slots gojng yo foreign educated doctors just go to American educated ones?

No. It isn't this simple.

First, although there are slots that go to IMGs, there are not a lot of them and they don't tend to be the most desirable ones. I have experience with this -- I've worked with IMGs seeking residency in the US. Second, most IMGs have been licensed and have been practicing medicine for years in another country. They have a lot of experience with patient care, but need to do a residency here to become acclimated to the American healthcare system and get licensed here. Given that residents are the workhorses in any teaching hospital, it often makes sense to bring these folks onboard -- they hit the ground running and provide more patient care than a student straight out of med school can or will. Finally, the finite number of residency slots is not the only issue -- there is a lack of rotation slots as well (this is actually a big problem right now, and I hear med students complain about it a lot).

100%, yes, agree!
And furthermore, to the PP, American MD programs match 98% of their students, the top 50 match 100% every year unless someone only lists one or two programs which is strongly discouraged. The DO programs that struggle with matching over 80% of their students are because many DO programs do not have enough hospital-ward or specialty-clinic rotation spots for their students! Residency programs do not want to take students who lack the right depth of training. Preference always goes to MD programs in the US or the handful of known top DO programs. IMGs do not take spots from adequately trained US med students.

I have no issue with what you are saying.

My question is why is the US importing doctors to do residency instead of training those doctors here? I don't find the argument that those doctors have been practicing a few years abroad before they come a compelling one.

That's because you aren't an attending at a teaching hospital that has more patients than it can handle.

Kid who went to Ivy now in medical school.

It was NOT easy to get research positions.

Kid is doing a BS/MD program. I highly recommend this route, it's a huge relief.