Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Response to COVID proved we have done a serious disservice the USA citizens in the field of science. It’s not just the youth. So many people just don’t have the knowledge to understand basic scientific facts.
It’s time we fixed that.

I agree with this, but I disagree with those who spread a false narrative that generalizes everyone — that’s simply not true. Instead of calling our people dumb or incompetent, why not focus on providing real solutions? What’s wrong with recognizing genuine merit? Providing good education and recognizing there are authentically competitive, smart young people are not in conflict.

When 50% of the students are not performing, we need to recognize that we have failed them. I'm never in favor of calling kids dumb. That's is counterproductive and it doesn't achieve anything. However, they are NOT performing at the level they should be. That's our failure, not theirs. Our kids would be competitive and perform just as well if we demanded it of them.

Or maybe you should look to see whether we are teaching them the right things. Why does everyone need to be taught calculus?

+1000

We need to have math and reading appropriate for the students. If a kid is struggling with Alg 1 (and has always struggled with math), we need to help them learn, slow it down and find different ways. Not just promote them with a C- and watch them struggle at the next level. And yes, beyond Alg 1, a personal finance/real life skills math courses would be much more beneficial than Pushing that kid towards calculus.
Similarly with reading, for kids who have struggled, let's meet them where they are, starting back in ES. With NCLB, teachers were constantly pushed to get all kids on "grade level". But at a 90%+ Low income/free lunch school (I knew a wonderful 2nd grade teacher at one in Montgomery county back then), a teacher is still massively penalized because 95% of their kids were not on grade level. What they didn't look at is that teacher finally took kids who were 2-3 grade levels behind at the start of 2nd grade and advanced them 1.5-2+ grade levels in reading. That was amazing and should be rewarded, not penalized.
And for kids who are struggling, let's find books/ways to reach them that interest them. In ES and MS and HS, we shouldn't be forcing "regular courses" to read specific books that are unrelatable. The kid who has always struggled in school and is below grade level for reading or barely at it, doesn't give a shit about Shakespeare (most likelY) and we shouldn't be trying to reach them with it---we need to find books they like and subjects of interest if we want to engage them.

In 5th grade, my advanced kid finally had an amazing teacher---one who highly encourage kids to start a book and if after 15-20 pages (10-15% of the book) they didn't like it, they were free to put it back and select another book. Only requirement was you had to read X books from each "category" (fiction/non fiction/biography/fantasy/etc) each semester. You know what, I watched 2 kids in that class who had struggled all thru ES (we were in Howard COUnty, at one of the better schools, so "struggle" was not the usual--they were still on/near grade level) and hated reading...well these 2 kids suddenly started to enjoy it! Why? Because they were finally given the choice of what to read and the permission to stop reading a boring book---just like we do as adults, if it's not a page turner after 20 pages I am switching books

Anonymous wrote:Not all American youth are uneducated or incapable. Recent posts and social media narratives paint a this picture — suggesting that America’s future is doomed and that only immigrants can fill skilled jobs. This is simply not true.

Bold part is the key part.

Also, since the USA has one of the highest I.Q. rates in the world, along with Japan and China and perhaps a couple countries such as Switzerland, how exactly are immigrants from any other countries supposed to increase the national I.Q. level? T

hat's absurd, I.Q. levels would drop even more if most immigrants are not from those specific countries, unless all immigration is stopped and only really intelligent people are allowed in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

What gives you this confidence? I have a niece and nephew in another country and I know there is no way my own kids (who are among the best students in their high school) could compete with them. The other system is brutal and to become the best demands a type of hard work my own kids never needed to do.

Grinding != Intelligence.

Exactly!!

I don't want my kids (or any really) to have to be grinding like that since they were tiny. To be placed on an academic track for their future by age 11/12 and to spend all day doing academics and nothing else.

My kid is at a great school (T40), with similar minded students, and they are all wickedly smart. Yet they also are people who have other interest and can participate in those interests and communicate with others about things beyond academics. My kid is an engineering major who has many other interests as well. That is what makes a great person---even for scientific research, we need people who do more than just live in a lab for 24 hours a day and nothing else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Many yes, but not enough.

If you compare the top students of different countries, America is competitive only because of the children of immigrants.

We do not nurture excellence here. We strive for equity, diversity and inclusivity. If we deliberately developed our smartest kids, we wouldn't need to brain drsain the rest of the world.

Sure including children of the European immigrants

Why would Europeans want to immigrate here?

You do realize that Europe is more than just the EU?

Yes. Still, the question remains.

The US is very dynamic and fast-paced. So NY and SF are appealing to the more ambitious, high-performing, and well-educated Europeans.

But that's a very small percentage of people. 98 percent of Europeans would not trade places with an American today.

Anonymous wrote:The AI summary of PISA scores; basically the only way to accurately compare academic performance across countries:
“ In the 2022 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), U.S. students' performance varied significantly by race. Asian students scored 578 in mathematics, 579 in reading, and 561 in science, placing them at the top internationally in all three subjects. White students scored 537 in mathematics, 537 in reading, and 537 in science, ranking among the highest performers globally. The U.S. overall average was 465 in mathematics, 504 in reading, and 499 in science, with Hispanic students scoring 471 in mathematics, 481 in reading, and 471 in science. Black students scored 445 in mathematics, 459 in reading, and 445 in science. Students of more than one race scored 513 in mathematics, 512 in reading, and 513 in science. These results indicate that while Asian and White students in the U.S. performed at levels comparable to top-performing countries, the overall U.S. average is influenced by lower scores among Hispanic and Black students.”

In summary, “diversity is our strength” isn’t universally true. I’m sure the 10 million third world illegal immigrants that came during the last 4 years will do wonders for our overall educational performance going forward. The only bright spot is each of these groups outperform their counterparts in foreign countries. That doesn’t indicate that the educational system here is bad; quite the contrary.

Thank you — finally, a sensible perspective.
Beyond academic excellence, many of these truly bright kids (not just the ones driven by excessive pressure or “tiger parenting”) are remarkably versatile. They’re also outstanding athletes, artists, musicians, and writers. You don’t often find such well-rounded individuals anywhere in the world.

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

This person is about as representative of American high school students as the Wisconsin kayaker is of men who leave their wives after finding a new gf on the internet.

Proof of nothing.

A very bright, determined, but very ND person. She might also realize she can be financially set for life through a lawsuit.

The AI summary of PISA scores; basically the only way to accurately compare academic performance across countries:
“ In the 2022 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), U.S. students' performance varied significantly by race. Asian students scored 578 in mathematics, 579 in reading, and 561 in science, placing them at the top internationally in all three subjects. White students scored 537 in mathematics, 537 in reading, and 537 in science, ranking among the highest performers globally. The U.S. overall average was 465 in mathematics, 504 in reading, and 499 in science, with Hispanic students scoring 471 in mathematics, 481 in reading, and 471 in science. Black students scored 445 in mathematics, 459 in reading, and 445 in science. Students of more than one race scored 513 in mathematics, 512 in reading, and 513 in science. These results indicate that while Asian and White students in the U.S. performed at levels comparable to top-performing countries, the overall U.S. average is influenced by lower scores among Hispanic and Black students.”

In summary, “diversity is our strength” isn’t universally true. I’m sure the 10 million third world illegal immigrants that came during the last 4 years will do wonders for our overall educational performance going forward. The only bright spot is each of these groups outperform their counterparts in foreign countries. That doesn’t indicate that the educational system here is bad; quite the contrary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Many yes, but not enough.

If you compare the top students of different countries, America is competitive only because of the children of immigrants.

We do not nurture excellence here. We strive for equity, diversity and inclusivity. If we deliberately developed our smartest kids, we wouldn't need to brain drsain the rest of the world.

Sure including children of the European immigrants

Why would Europeans want to immigrate here?

You do realize that Europe is more than just the EU?

Yes. Still, the question remains.

Ask the Russians and the Ukrainians. Plenty of them around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

She has severe learning disabilities. ADHD, dyslexia, anxiety disorder, ODD, communication disorder. And bullying from a special d teacher? It goes without saying if she had gone to a better school she’d be doing much better.

But she put the work in to try and overcome her disabilities. With better help and guiding her to the latest technology that helps students with her disabilities she would probably greatly improve.

Meant to add: Plus, why should she be denied high school graduation with honors (and university admission) just because she cannot read?

Most people are not blaming her, but the system that passed her without the skills.

But I can’t tell if you are serious or not with your last statement. Surely in order to graduate from high school one should be literate. My own sibling was born with an intellectual disability and has an IQ of 55. I love him dearly but he is NOT a high school graduate, and certainly did not receive academic honors, nor did he attend college. Do you think every person has a right to these things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Many yes, but not enough.

If you compare the top students of different countries, America is competitive only because of the children of immigrants.

We do not nurture excellence here. We strive for equity, diversity and inclusivity. If we deliberately developed our smartest kids, we wouldn't need to brain drsain the rest of the world.

Sure including children of the European immigrants

Why would Europeans want to immigrate here?

You do realize that Europe is more than just the EU?

Yes. Still, the question remains.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Response to COVID proved we have done a serious disservice the USA citizens in the field of science. It’s not just the youth. So many people just don’t have the knowledge to understand basic scientific facts.
It’s time we fixed that.

I agree with this, but I disagree with those who spread a false narrative that generalizes everyone — that’s simply not true. Instead of calling our people dumb or incompetent, why not focus on providing real solutions? What’s wrong with recognizing genuine merit? Providing good education and recognizing there are authentically competitive, smart young people are not in conflict.

When 50% of the students are not performing, we need to recognize that we have failed them. I'm never in favor of calling kids dumb. That's is counterproductive and it doesn't achieve anything. However, they are NOT performing at the level they should be. That's our failure, not theirs. Our kids would be competitive and perform just as well if we demanded it of them.

Or maybe you should look to see whether we are teaching them the right things. Why does everyone need to be taught calculus?

Only certain careers need calculus and it’s not taken by all high schoolers.

Colleges look at calculus as a marker of a student's ability to understand complex abstract concepts.

It's not a graduation requirement. It is also not a marker of literacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Response to COVID proved we have done a serious disservice the USA citizens in the field of science. It’s not just the youth. So many people just don’t have the knowledge to understand basic scientific facts.
It’s time we fixed that.

I agree with this, but I disagree with those who spread a false narrative that generalizes everyone — that’s simply not true. Instead of calling our people dumb or incompetent, why not focus on providing real solutions? What’s wrong with recognizing genuine merit? Providing good education and recognizing there are authentically competitive, smart young people are not in conflict.

When 50% of the students are not performing, we need to recognize that we have failed them. I'm never in favor of calling kids dumb. That's is counterproductive and it doesn't achieve anything. However, they are NOT performing at the level they should be. That's our failure, not theirs. Our kids would be competitive and perform just as well if we demanded it of them.

Or maybe you should look to see whether we are teaching them the right things. Why does everyone need to be taught calculus?

Only certain careers need calculus and it’s not taken by all high schoolers.

Colleges look at calculus as a marker of a student's ability to understand complex abstract concepts.

Why can't they look to English for that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Many yes, but not enough.

If you compare the top students of different countries, America is competitive only because of the children of immigrants.

We do not nurture excellence here. We strive for equity, diversity and inclusivity. If we deliberately developed our smartest kids, we wouldn't need to brain drsain the rest of the world.

Sure including children of the European immigrants

Why would Europeans want to immigrate here?

You do realize that Europe is more than just the EU?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

She has severe learning disabilities. ADHD, dyslexia, anxiety disorder, ODD, communication disorder. And bullying from a special d teacher? It goes without saying if she had gone to a better school she’d be doing much better.

But she put the work in to try and overcome her disabilities. With better help and guiding her to the latest technology that helps students with her disabilities she would probably greatly improve.

She writes like that and was accepted into UConn??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

What about the Math or Physics competition winners? What about sports competitions? The bottom does not represent all

Indeed. If you look at this year's IMO (Math Olympiad) v/s questions even from 10 years ago -- most of the top kids have no trouble solving the latter. In fact, some of the IMO questions in recent years have been so hard that even Terry Tao and a bunch of college professors had to "group solve" questions and it took them a couple of hours or more but every member of the US team solved them in the time allotted. So the top echelon is astonishingly proficient.

And almost all of them are the children of immigrants.

As if you’re not the child of immigrants