Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

But it's bullshit because cigar smokers don't smoke anywhere near the equivalent od two or three packs a day like cigarette smokers.

So, how often is it safe to smoke cigars?

It's a great question. I don't know, but how often is it safe to drink wine? In moderation, I think both are fine.

Then, you'd be wrong on both accounts. And I drink wine, but I am not fooling myself that it carries no risk even in moderation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

But it's bullshit because cigar smokers don't smoke anywhere near the equivalent od two or three packs a day like cigarette smokers.

So, how often is it safe to smoke cigars?

It's a great question. I don't know, but how often is it safe to drink wine? In moderation, I think both are fine.

I suppose cigar smokers might get lip cancer over many, many years, but they don't inhale so I doubt they get lung cancer and emphysema like cigarette smokers. And it's not addictive like cigarette smoking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's not very frequent. Cigarette smokers smoke a pack a day, all throughout the day.

Cigar smokers may have 1 cigar every 2 weeks.

Health wise, it's about the same, though. Cigar smokers are just kidding themselves.

Is it though? I would seem that an occasional cigar is not the same as a pack a day habit.

Here you go. Not safer at all.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/nicotine-dependence/expert-answers/cigar-smoking/faq-20057787

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/other-tobacco-products/cigars.html#:~:text=Fact,1

This is a 1:1 comparison. It says the more cigars the higher the risk. We're talking about an occasional cigar, not smoking a pack a days worth of cigars.

No, it's not, because that would be impossible to do. No one smokes 10-20 cigars per day. It is to inform people like you who fool themselves into thinking that just because you don't smoke a cigar every day, it's safer than cigarettes. There is also virtually no difference between those who smoke 3 cigarettes per day vs. those who smoke 15.

The amount of ignorance on this thread is amazing.

In the first place, there is a clear health difference between smoking 3 versus 15 cigarettes a day. In general, doctors measure cigarette usage by the 20 pack-year metric standard, which is equivalent to a pack a day over 20 years or the equivalent, which can half a pack a day over 40 years and so forth. It is when you have had a 20 pack year history that they recommend screening for cancer. Plenty of smokers never smoked a pack a day or even half a pack a day. It's a pretty well studied field.

Second, the casual cigar smokers aren't inhaling. They just puff and exhale. Cigars aren't meant to be smoked like cigarettes. Do some still inhale? Absolutely. But those young men puffing on cigars probably aren't.

I don't like either cigars or cigarettes but people have become extremists about them. The occasional casual usage is no big deal.

I love how you claim to be so knowledgeable and then post ignorant stuff like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

But it's bullshit because cigar smokers don't smoke anywhere near the equivalent od two or three packs a day like cigarette smokers.

So, how often is it safe to smoke cigars?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it's not very frequent. Cigarette smokers smoke a pack a day, all throughout the day.

Cigar smokers may have 1 cigar every 2 weeks.

Health wise, it's about the same, though. Cigar smokers are just kidding themselves.

Is it though? I would seem that an occasional cigar is not the same as a pack a day habit.

Here you go. Not safer at all.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/nicotine-dependence/expert-answers/cigar-smoking/faq-20057787

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/other-tobacco-products/cigars.html#:~:text=Fact,1

This is a 1:1 comparison. It says the more cigars the higher the risk. We're talking about an occasional cigar, not smoking a pack a days worth of cigars.

No, it's not, because that would be impossible to do. No one smokes 10-20 cigars per day. It is to inform people like you who fool themselves into thinking that just because you don't smoke a cigar every day, it's safer than cigarettes. There is also virtually no difference between those who smoke 3 cigarettes per day vs. those who smoke 15.

The amount of ignorance on this thread is amazing.

In the first place, there is a clear health difference between smoking 3 versus 15 cigarettes a day. In general, doctors measure cigarette usage by the 20 pack-year metric standard, which is equivalent to a pack a day over 20 years or the equivalent, which can half a pack a day over 40 years and so forth. It is when you have had a 20 pack year history that they recommend screening for cancer. Plenty of smokers never smoked a pack a day or even half a pack a day. It's a pretty well studied field.

Second, the casual cigar smokers aren't inhaling. They just puff and exhale. Cigars aren't meant to be smoked like cigarettes. Do some still inhale? Absolutely. But those young men puffing on cigars probably aren't.

I don't like either cigars or cigarettes but people have become extremists about them. The occasional casual usage is no big deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t most medical advice based on words like “in moderation”? A lot of anything is bad. Using less of a bad thing would be preferable to more.

There is no such thing as smoking in moderation FFS. Are you saying that smoking cigars occasionally is totally fine and carries no risk of all sorts of cancer? I can't even believe we are debating this in the year 2025.

NP. Ah, there go those goalposts.

What goalposts. This entire time you've been trying to disprove something I said, unsuccessfully. What position do you actually hold that you think you supported with science?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

But it's bullshit because cigar smokers don't smoke anywhere near the equivalent od two or three packs a day like cigarette smokers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

What do you think you proved with the summary you provided? Because nothing you provided proved me wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t most medical advice based on words like “in moderation”? A lot of anything is bad. Using less of a bad thing would be preferable to more.

There is no such thing as smoking in moderation FFS. Are you saying that smoking cigars occasionally is totally fine and carries no risk of all sorts of cancer? I can't even believe we are debating this in the year 2025.

NP. Ah, there go those goalposts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

I don’t smoke, and I’m guessing that none of the other people you’ve been arguing with here do either. Anyway, you asked for scientific proof, we gave it, and you still reject it because this entire thing is only about you not being able to accept or admit that you’re wrong.

I was lsitening to a health podcast the other day and the lifelong researcher into smoking said most cigar smokers do not inhale. Cigarette smokers inhale.

Cigar smoking it more about the taste and process.

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t most medical advice based on words like “in moderation”? A lot of anything is bad. Using less of a bad thing would be preferable to more.

There is no such thing as smoking in moderation FFS. Are you saying that smoking cigars occasionally is totally fine and carries no risk of all sorts of cancer? I can't even believe we are debating this in the year 2025.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK586217/

"Primary Cigar Smoking Relative to Other Tobacco Products and All-Cause Mortality
Relative to other tobacco products, the risk of mortality associated with current primary cigar smoking was generally lower than risk observed for cigarette smokers (cigarette relative risks [RR]: 1.45–2.40) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998; Rodu and Plurphanswat, 2021; Thomson et al., 2020) and higher than the risk observed for pipe smoking (RRs: 0.95–1.20) (Chang et al., 2015; Christensen et al., 2018; Corrigendum, 2019; Inoue-Choi et al., 2019; NCI, 1998). Compared to never-tobacco users, the RRs (95 percent CIs) for mortality for current cigar, cigarette, and pipe smokers were 1.20 (1.03–1.38), 1.98 (1.93–2.02), and 1.09 (0.92–1.28), respectively (Christensen et al., 2018)."

“Overall, daily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.22–1.49), but not nondaily (RRs, 95 percent CI: 1.04–1.12) cigar smoking was associated with significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among current primary cigar smokers”

Interesting! So, looks pretty conclusive that quantity of smoking does affect the amount of harm/risk.

More contemporary studies are needed, as stated in the conclusion.

Just don't worry about it. You'll just get a little bit of cancer if you smoke a little bit of cigars.

Isn’t most medical advice based on words like “in moderation”? A lot of anything is bad. Using less of a bad thing would be preferable to more.