Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

I'm so sick and tired of this bigoted type of garbage. Most families of transgender children go through the wringer with their kids between the ages where they are old enough to know that something doesn't feel right but too young to be able to grasp what is going on with themselves. It is very often a years-long exhausting process to help their child navigate their situation before they ever come out publicly. Reducing it to a "whim" to decide who they are on a given day is highly offensive to those transgender individuals who most likely have struggled with their identity for as long as they can remember.

Get out of there with that.

The world doesn’t revolved around you and yours. Every kid might have their challenges and issues to overcome.

Such a weird response when clearly this guy was the one trying to make the world revolve around him

This guy and his reactions aside, we’re just not going to end women's and girl’s sports for a few kids who want to buck the rules. Sorry, it’s just not going to happen and the sooner we resolve this debate the better so we can all just move on.

Anonymous wrote:

1) Co-ed practices and teams, and Co-ed competition when it doesn't unfairly disadvantage girls

2) When competition is sex segregated, trans girls should compete in the boys division

I think this will help accomplish the goal of inclusivity while also normalizing the idea that in direct, head-to-head competition, trans girls/women need to be in the boys category for fairness (not as punishment or to ostracize anyone).

So let me ask you this then - if the difference you are concerned about is biology and strength/size, I assume you still think that my son, who is about to turn 17 and is 5'7" and 115 lbs, should compete with males, right? If so, why?

Because as a society we decided that we would segregate sports by sex so that more girls and women could participate and compete at higher levels.

Sure, your son was not born with the physique if a great athlete. Me too! That's life. There are plenty of girls who are short, underweight, struggle to build muscle mass, etc., and it locks them out if making varsity or playing in college, or competing at elite levels. But thanks to sex segregation, there *is* a place for gifted female athletes to compete.

If we didn't segregate sports by sex, your son would still not be an elite athlete. But neither would the vast majority of women. Katie Ledecki wouldn't have single Olympic medal, would likely not have gone. Every member if the WNBA and USA Women's Soccer team would have to go find something else to do. Because they simply cannot compete against the men.

Basically, even elite women athletes would be treated as no different from your son, who is not an elite athlete. I don't want that.

So yes, I'm fine with your son playing with the boys even if it means he won't make varsity. I'm a woman and a mediocre athlete so I didn't make varsity either. But I want women to have a chance at being great, don't you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

I'm so sick and tired of this bigoted type of garbage. Most families of transgender children go through the wringer with their kids between the ages where they are old enough to know that something doesn't feel right but too young to be able to grasp what is going on with themselves. It is very often a years-long exhausting process to help their child navigate their situation before they ever come out publicly. Reducing it to a "whim" to decide who they are on a given day is highly offensive to those transgender individuals who most likely have struggled with their identity for as long as they can remember.

Get out of there with that.

The world doesn’t revolved around you and yours. Every kid might have their challenges and issues to overcome.

Such a weird response when clearly this guy was the one trying to make the world revolve around him

Anonymous wrote:While the child in the story is not mine, I do have a male 8u that participates in a ffx county NVSL swim league.

Since he was 2 he’s been obsessed with dresses/princesses/more categorically “girly” things. He wore dresses to preK. As he’s gotten older, he’s realized kids will make fun of him so now when he’s out and about, he dresses like any other “boy”. I know this likely isn’t the end of a journey for us. He may turn out cis, may be gay, may be trans.

While admittedly I’m a democrat and supportive of trans kids/trans rights, it’s much harder when it could be your own kid realizing the world isn’t kind to kids who are different.

What would you do if from the age of 2 your child came home bawling everyday that his friends who are girls could wear dresses and he couldn’t? That he wishes he wasn’t alive?

You don’t know this child, you don’t know the family. Neither do I. You don’t need to know the situation to be respectful. You told the referee and that’s where this should have stopped.

For the record, if my kid winds up trans I don’t think he should be swimming with girls.

I think he should be allowed to swim with boys but wear the girls suit (which im pretty sure isn’t allowed currently).

Honest response: No 2 year old makes statements that "he wishes he wasn't alive." I'm sorry, PP, I simply do not believe this.

And to your question, I would have guided him from the beginning. Boys do not wear dresses. End of story. Want some ice cream?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

Luis, you wrote me: “You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?”

I responded with the 5 specifics above. Since I took the time to answer you, please give me the courtesy of directly responding to every point I made.

So let me ask you this then - if the difference you are concerned about is biology and strength/size, I assume you still think that my son, who is about to turn 17 and is 5'7" and 115 lbs, should compete with males, right? If so, why?


Because inch for inch and pound for pound, he will be able to beat the girls if he puts in the effort (and not even too much of that). Testosterone, larger lung capacity, more upper body strength, less body fat, less hormone fluctuation...

Would you be as worried about his safety in a contact sport environment as you would a similarly sized female? I never noticed anyone fretting that he should not have had to go up against 6' defenders who weighed 180 lbs when he used to play travel soccer.

For background: I think trangenderism is one of the most sexist, homophobic, misogynist, and regressive belief systems to have become a dominant belief system in years. I think it is a clear attempt from the left to destroy the civil rights of women in favor of men. I think we will look back at this time period with horror in one hundred years or so, and view the advocates of transgender rights the same way we do the people who promoted eugenics one hundred years ago.

But Mr. Fernandez, what you did is wrong here. Other people have addressed the ways it should have been handled, so I won’t. But I want to be clear that you handled this incorrectly.

I’ll tell you another reason, aside from what others have said, that you are wrong: if this child is indeed a biological boy (which you don’t even know for sure!), this child’s parents may be (probably are) raising the child to be entitled and encouraged to trample over the spaces and rights of biological girls. We don’t know for sure, to start with, but it seems like a likely possibility.

But even assuming that’s all true, you acted like a bully yourself here. In general, child bullies who are on the receiving end of bullying from adults just learn how to become worse bullies. Putting aside this situation, and speaking generally, all that happens when an adult bully bullies a child bully is that the child learns how to bully even more. It doesn’t teach the lesson the adult thinks.

So all you’ve done here is taught a child who is already likely being taught bullying behaviors that adults can bully too. That’s never going to accomplish your ultimate goal, which I assume is to demonstrate how the parents are teaching their child a misogynist and regressive belief system. By your actions, you’re probably hardened the family and likely entrenched them further.

In short, you bullied a child who is likely already being badly treated by that child’s own parents. That’s terrible across the board. There is no world in which what you did makes the ultimate issue you are trying to address better. You don’t bully kids to make your point and successfully make that point.

Also coming here to try to drum up support is just weird. Sorry, but it is.

^^^ And I meant to add that all of this is over the top, IMO. This was a fun, casual mini meet that has nothing to do with the NVSL. But OP wants to treat it as more than that, hence my response.

Personal feelings on whether this child should have been able to swim as a girl or not are irrelevant. OP calls for clarification of NVSL rules when he himself did nothing but violate them. The handbook (p. 80) is clear that protests should be lodged by the team reps. The ruling of the referee (for technical violations) or committee appointed by the League President (for non technical violations the reps cannot resolve amongst themselves) is considered final and binding.

As a marshal and/or parent, OP had no standing to approach anyone other than the reps. Even allowing for him to go directly to the referee, that is where it should have ended. Writing on the results sheet, addressing parents, engaging board members was all inappropriate on any level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

I'm so sick and tired of this bigoted type of garbage. Most families of transgender children go through the wringer with their kids between the ages where they are old enough to know that something doesn't feel right but too young to be able to grasp what is going on with themselves. It is very often a years-long exhausting process to help their child navigate their situation before they ever come out publicly. Reducing it to a "whim" to decide who they are on a given day is highly offensive to those transgender individuals who most likely have struggled with their identity for as long as they can remember.

Get out of there with that.

The world doesn’t revolved around you and yours. Every kid might have their challenges and issues to overcome.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

I'm so sick and tired of this bigoted type of garbage. Most families of transgender children go through the wringer with their kids between the ages where they are old enough to know that something doesn't feel right but too young to be able to grasp what is going on with themselves. It is very often a years-long exhausting process to help their child navigate their situation before they ever come out publicly. Reducing it to a "whim" to decide who they are on a given day is highly offensive to those transgender individuals who most likely have struggled with their identity for as long as they can remember.

Get out of there with that.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

I'm so sick and tired of this bigoted type of garbage. Most families of transgender children go through the wringer with their kids between the ages where they are old enough to know that something doesn't feel right but too young to be able to grasp what is going on with themselves. It is very often a years-long exhausting process to help their child navigate their situation before they ever come out publicly. Reducing it to a "whim" to decide who they are on a given day is highly offensive to those transgender individuals who most likely have struggled with their identity for as long as they can remember.

Get out of there with that.

All this loser wanted was attention, and now he's got 6 pages of it and counting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

They may well have. The parents clearly registered this kid as a girl. The “powers that be” for the meet were the team reps who based on the info don’t seem to think the kid shouldn’t be swimming as a girl.

They care otherwise it would be an open meet and anyone could swim in any race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel so horribly for the family of the swimmer at the center of this ridiculous fiasco. Have you ever even considered putting yourself in their shoes?

They have a child who is likely struggling with their identity but also wants to swim. I bet they just want the best for their kid and to help their child grow into a confident happy human who spends their time participating in activities that make them happy and grow their confidence at a time when they may be doubting an awful lot about themselves.

And then comes along a self-righteous, bigoted garbage human who feels that it is his right to publicly tear it all down.

You sir, are the worst kind of a$$hole there is.

Then they should have taken that up with the powers that be to make sure it was ok to bend the rules in a sex segregated event where times mattered. It’s not a free for all based on the whims of a kid to decide who they are on a given day.

They may well have. The parents clearly registered this kid as a girl. The “powers that be” for the meet were the team reps who based on the info don’t seem to think the kid shouldn’t be swimming as a girl.