Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

I’m not as pessimistic. To be cynical, there are only two national parties, and always will be. Even if people distrust Democrats (and I’m not sure that’s true), they’ll still vote blue in order to to kick out the vastly more unpopular Trump.

PP here. Why on earth do you think Trump is more unpopular than the Democrats? There is no polling that shows that now. Polls now show Trump is unpopular but the Democratic Party is even more unpopular.

And I don’t know how you can’t see how distrusted the Democrats are at this point, but this is the same smug complacency that lost the presidency in 2024. I find it incredibly frustrating, because if you’d just open your eyes (where you refers to Democrats more generally), maybe we’d have a shot at winning again.

Trump isn't running against "Democrats" - he will be running against a specific person. I don't give a damn what polls say about political parties. Polls have always shown that parties are unpopular but individual candidates still win.

As far as Democrats "learning lessons", I'm sick of apologizing for our beliefs, which are communal, tolerant, and progressive. If basic competence and decency is too much for voters, especially when compared to the Republic clown show, then screw them. Democrats need to grow a backbone, not grovel to a bunch of people who are scared of trans people.

But the Democratic leaders are not any of the bolded and neither are their beliefs. Not since Obama and even then, only in his first term. That’s why people like Trump can and do win: because voters simply don’t perceive Democratic candidates this way. The Democratic self-perception gap is just so gaping.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

I’m not as pessimistic. To be cynical, there are only two national parties, and always will be. Even if people distrust Democrats (and I’m not sure that’s true), they’ll still vote blue in order to to kick out the vastly more unpopular Trump.

PP here. Why on earth do you think Trump is more unpopular than the Democrats? There is no polling that shows that now. Polls now show Trump is unpopular but the Democratic Party is even more unpopular.

And I don’t know how you can’t see how distrusted the Democrats are at this point, but this is the same smug complacency that lost the presidency in 2024. I find it incredibly frustrating, because if you’d just open your eyes (where you refers to Democrats more generally), maybe we’d have a shot at winning again.

Trump isn't running against "Democrats" - he will be running against a specific person. I don't give a damn what polls say about political parties. Polls have always shown that parties are unpopular but individual candidates still win.

As far as Democrats "learning lessons", I'm sick of apologizing for our beliefs, which are communal, tolerant, and progressive. If basic competence and decency is too much for voters, especially when compared to the Republic clown show, then screw them. Democrats need to grow a backbone, not grovel to a bunch of people who are scared of trans people.

The problem that Dem moderates are running into is that they don't seem to stand for anything. I am barely hearing anything from D leadership on any of the major issues today. Maybe they are saying or posting something but it's not penetrating and I say this as someone who is pretty engaged.

Agree with a PP who said the party (maybe both) have lost the trust of voters. This is why left wing or progressive candidates can generate more enthusiasm, because they seem more authentic and like the believe in something versus parroting the most "popular" or palatable consultant-vetted position.

I agree Dems will need someone who seems like an outsider like Obama initially did. Otherwise it's hard to break the cycle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

Did Biden govern or did his twenty something staff?

Biden had a fantastic cabinet of expertise and support.

For the DNC agenda, yes.

For the country, no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

Did Biden govern or did his twenty something staff?

Biden had a fantastic cabinet of expertise and support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

Did Biden govern or did his twenty something staff?

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

Most people would vote for anyone sane and competent at this point. There is massive dissatisfaction with both parties. But Democrats would be wrong to think they can just drift into power as they did last time because of Trump's unpopularity. Nominating a middling geriatric who then pursued vastly unpopular progressive policies - from immigration to crime to DEI to redefining women and on and on - ended up ruining the Democratic brand. And people remember. Republicans may be unpopular, but there's a reason the Democratic leadership in Congress only has a 27 percent approval rating. Democrats don't talk about health care. They don't take about the environment. They don't talk about wage stagnation. They don't talk about inflation. Democrats offer absolutely nothing to the working and middle class. Forgiving student loans is just another tax burden on people who didn't go to college. Instead Democrats live in fear of the progressive left and have embraced repellent identity politics. And then they get sucked into whatever Trump scandal is dominating the news on any given day. We see Democrats being shrill for about three minutes a day. And that's about it for the Democratic Party today.

People caring about work, wages, health insurance, making a living, schools, public safety and every other kitchen table issue doesn't mean they are eager for Zohran Mamdani. Globalize the Intifada isn't the slogan that's going to win midterms or the White House. It's not progressives Americans yearn for. It's common sense and decency, and there Democrats are every bit as out of touch as Republicans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

Anonymous wrote:I am a moderate - voted for several republican presidents (but none since Bush 41) and find myself rooting for AOC and her type of progressive agenda.

Same. These billionaires are turning me into a socialist. — Gen Xer

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Dems don't hide it now. They're out and out commies. We always knew it. Why hide it.

Even John Kerry was saying today how nuts and radical the party has become.

Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

+1 I also predicted Trump would win, and I despise him with every fiber of my being.

Dems are out of touch with the common people. Rs did a much better job pushing the message that the border was out of control, and Dems responded to it too little too late. I have been saying since Biden won (whom I voted for) that he needed to deal with the border issue in his first year. But, no, they waited too long for it. Harris visiting the border did nothing.

I do think the Dems need new leadership. Where the heck is Schumer and Pelosi? These are the old guards that need to go. They are doing nothing, at the same time, people don't trust them. They are helping Rs by staying in power and doing nothing.

People wanted someone different, someone not in the establishment. So, we got Trump, who is terrible for this country. Dems need to put someone else forward. Someone not in the establishment. IMO, this is why Obama won. And I didn't even vote for him the first time because I was a staunch R back then. I did the second time.

Agree, but “not the establishment” doesn’t mean what most Democrats think it means. To win, “not the establishment” means rank and file labor. It means working class workers, not privileging NGOs and illegal immigrants. It means nothing to do with DEI and woke (which are seen largely as tools of oppression used by ruling classes to suppress the working class). It means abandoning the incomprehensible language of academia for plain speaking. It means being very careful about pushing things like student loan forgiveness, which largely just favor the already-wealthy.

It means a sea change. And I don’t think leadership can stomach that.

PP here, and totally agree. The student loan forgiveness did not sit well with most Americans. It only helped a small proportion of Americans. This is why Dems are so out of touch. They pick policies that help the small minority rather than focusing on the majority. It's nice to try to help the minority, but that's not how you win a national election.

The majority of Americans don't have a college degree, yet, here they were, pushing college loan forgiveness, while ordinary Americans were struggling to pay rent, and buy food, or even afford college for their own kids.

Completely out of touch at the national level. I hope to gawd they put someone who is more in touch with the ordinary people, and that's not AOC, sorry.

Totally agree but I don’t think the Democratic leadership can accept this. It would mean accepting that most voters do not see them as good people. This requires more than a political realignment, it requires an ego alignment. I don’t think they can do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

+1 I also predicted Trump would win, and I despise him with every fiber of my being.

Dems are out of touch with the common people. Rs did a much better job pushing the message that the border was out of control, and Dems responded to it too little too late. I have been saying since Biden won (whom I voted for) that he needed to deal with the border issue in his first year. But, no, they waited too long for it. Harris visiting the border did nothing.

I do think the Dems need new leadership. Where the heck is Schumer and Pelosi? These are the old guards that need to go. They are doing nothing, at the same time, people don't trust them. They are helping Rs by staying in power and doing nothing.

People wanted someone different, someone not in the establishment. So, we got Trump, who is terrible for this country. Dems need to put someone else forward. Someone not in the establishment. IMO, this is why Obama won. And I didn't even vote for him the first time because I was a staunch R back then. I did the second time.

Agree, but “not the establishment” doesn’t mean what most Democrats think it means. To win, “not the establishment” means rank and file labor. It means working class workers, not privileging NGOs and illegal immigrants. It means nothing to do with DEI and woke (which are seen largely as tools of oppression used by ruling classes to suppress the working class). It means abandoning the incomprehensible language of academia for plain speaking. It means being very careful about pushing things like student loan forgiveness, which largely just favor the already-wealthy.

It means a sea change. And I don’t think leadership can stomach that.

PP here, and totally agree. The student loan forgiveness did not sit well with most Americans. It only helped a small proportion of Americans. This is why Dems are so out of touch. They pick policies that help the small minority rather than focusing on the majority. It's nice to try to help the minority, but that's not how you win a national election.

The majority of Americans don't have a college degree, yet, here they were, pushing college loan forgiveness, while ordinary Americans were struggling to pay rent, and buy food, or even afford college for their own kids.

Completely out of touch at the national level. I hope to gawd they put someone who is more in touch with the ordinary people, and that's not AOC, sorry.