Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can get a nice home in the Lehigh Valley in West Allentown or historic Bethlehem for that budget.

Lancaster would be an option as well. I’d prefer both of these places to Pittsburgh because they’re close to big cities like New York and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is isolated.

An example of what you can get in West Allentown. Obviously you can go lower than $400,000 and pick up something nice, but smaller and not as updated.

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Allentown/2729-W-Allen-St-18104/home/196135126

They are an hour to an 1 1/2 hours to those cities. Pittsburgh is a million times better then slightly depressed towns like Allentown, Bethlehem (the best of the three) or Lancaster.

I’d rather be 1 1/2 hours from the best city in the world, NYC, than be 4 hours from any major city, like you are in Pittsburgh.

If you move to Pittsburgh you need to really like Pittsburgh, because it’s not close to anything except Ohio.

Lancaster, Allentown, and Bethlehem are all mid tier cities with plenty of amenities that are close to world class cities. And there are nice places in all three of these cities, just like there are depressing neighborhoods and nice neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. The house in Allentown posted above is in a very nice Pre WW2 neighborhood with big parks and a university within walking distance.

I don't consider Lancaster, Allentown, or Bethlehem cities at all, mid tier or not. Allentown is the largest, at 124k, the other two are smaller than 100k. They are large towns, or exurbs.

In Pittsburgh, if you want to go to a play, an art museum, the ballet, a major sporting event, or a concert, you can go tonight. If you live in Pittsburgh, you could be there in 15-30 minutes. If you are north of town or in South Hills, you can be there in less than an hour. That's what it means to live in a city. You can live in a dense neighborhood in Pittsburgh with restaurants, bars, cafes, and bakeries walking distance from your home. You could live in certain neighborhoods and rely on public transit for most travel. You have access to activities on multiple major university campuses, plus all the Carnegie museums.

To do any of those things from Lancaster, Allentown, or Bethlehem, you have to travel into Philly or NYC and you're going to get home very late or have to spend the night. If you are right downtown, you could be walkable to some restaurants, bars, etc., but there will be more limited selection and variety.

The one advantage of these towns versus a place like Pittsburgh is international travel because of proximity to international airports. But on domestic travel, living in Pittsburgh puts you closer to a major airport. But your day to day life in Pittsburgh will have many more amenities of city life than living in an exurb of Philadelphia will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can get a nice home in the Lehigh Valley in West Allentown or historic Bethlehem for that budget.

Lancaster would be an option as well. I’d prefer both of these places to Pittsburgh because they’re close to big cities like New York and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is isolated.

An example of what you can get in West Allentown. Obviously you can go lower than $400,000 and pick up something nice, but smaller and not as updated.

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Allentown/2729-W-Allen-St-18104/home/196135126

They are an hour to an 1 1/2 hours to those cities. Pittsburgh is a million times better then slightly depressed towns like Allentown, Bethlehem (the best of the three) or Lancaster.

I’d rather be 1 1/2 hours from the best city in the world, NYC, than be 4 hours from any major city, like you are in Pittsburgh.

If you move to Pittsburgh you need to really like Pittsburgh, because it’s not close to anything except Ohio.

Lancaster, Allentown, and Bethlehem are all mid tier cities with plenty of amenities that are close to world class cities. And there are nice places in all three of these cities, just like there are depressing neighborhoods and nice neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. The house in Allentown posted above is in a very nice Pre WW2 neighborhood with big parks and a university within walking distance.

Lehigh valley is nice if you want to be there, but if the goal is to be close to Philadelphia and NY, it's possible to be closer on that budget. Like, just live in Philly. Or Princeton if they prefer a more suburban life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can get a nice home in the Lehigh Valley in West Allentown or historic Bethlehem for that budget.

Lancaster would be an option as well. I’d prefer both of these places to Pittsburgh because they’re close to big cities like New York and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is isolated.

An example of what you can get in West Allentown. Obviously you can go lower than $400,000 and pick up something nice, but smaller and not as updated.

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Allentown/2729-W-Allen-St-18104/home/196135126

They are an hour to an 1 1/2 hours to those cities. Pittsburgh is a million times better then slightly depressed towns like Allentown, Bethlehem (the best of the three) or Lancaster.

I’d rather be 1 1/2 hours from the best city in the world, NYC, than be 4 hours from any major city, like you are in Pittsburgh.

If you move to Pittsburgh you need to really like Pittsburgh, because it’s not close to anything except Ohio.

Lancaster, Allentown, and Bethlehem are all mid tier cities with plenty of amenities that are close to world class cities. And there are nice places in all three of these cities, just like there are depressing neighborhoods and nice neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. The house in Allentown posted above is in a very nice Pre WW2 neighborhood with big parks and a university within walking distance.

Pittsburg has everything a retiree could need. Healthcare, Arts, Sports, Food

Nobody is spending 4 hours to get to NYC when they are 80.

Anonymous wrote:Open to US and international locations.

Assume you can use the full 80k for living expenses, you don't have to save for anything. But the 80k would have to cover rent or a mortgage (assume you could put down 20%).

Defining comfortable as: live in a safe and pleasant neighborhood, doesn't need to be high end. Can easily afford groceries, cell phone, cable and internet. Can afford transportation within the region, either public transit if available or can afford to pay for parking/insurance/gas (assume you already have a car if it's necessary for getting around). Can afford basic entertainment -- maybe eating out at a mid price restaurant once a week, going to the movies occasionally.

80k doesn't have to cover travel, but access to a decent sized airport is a major plus.

DH’s home town in rural Louisiana has affordable housing and groceries, but none of the infrastructure we want or need. They closed the public library. There isn’t a hospital. Only a large animal vet. Buses only run twice a day.

There are some mom and pop restaurants with great food, but no movie theater or play house. You have to go to NOLA for professional music.

Internet is spotty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can get a nice home in the Lehigh Valley in West Allentown or historic Bethlehem for that budget.

Lancaster would be an option as well. I’d prefer both of these places to Pittsburgh because they’re close to big cities like New York and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is isolated.

An example of what you can get in West Allentown. Obviously you can go lower than $400,000 and pick up something nice, but smaller and not as updated.

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Allentown/2729-W-Allen-St-18104/home/196135126

They are an hour to an 1 1/2 hours to those cities. Pittsburgh is a million times better then slightly depressed towns like Allentown, Bethlehem (the best of the three) or Lancaster.

I’d rather be 1 1/2 hours from the best city in the world, NYC, than be 4 hours from any major city, like you are in Pittsburgh.

If you move to Pittsburgh you need to really like Pittsburgh, because it’s not close to anything except Ohio.

Lancaster, Allentown, and Bethlehem are all mid tier cities with plenty of amenities that are close to world class cities. And there are nice places in all three of these cities, just like there are depressing neighborhoods and nice neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. The house in Allentown posted above is in a very nice Pre WW2 neighborhood with big parks and a university within walking distance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k?! Is this a joke? That is not enough money to live comfortably anywhere that is not straight up third world. Like you will be living like a local with no ac and a squat toilet in Eastern Europe/Asia.

OP here. This doesn't sound right. They can spend the full 80k on living expenses. I was thinking if we could find somewhere where you could get a rental for around 2k/mo would work, would adjust higher or lower depending on taxes, whether they'd need a car, etc.

I was expecting suggestions for smaller cities in the midwest, south, and rust belt, maybe midsize cities in Europe? They'd be open to Mexico for sure (one of them speaks Spanish very well) though I'm mildly worried about the heat.

I think most Midwestern cities and MidSouth cities, including Chicago.

I'm most familiar with St. Louis so here's my recs:

St. Louis suburbs, on the Illinois side -- O'Fallon, Illinois; Edwardsville, Illinois; Belleville, Illinois.

St. Louis suburbs on the Missouri side -- Chesterfield, St. Charles,

Central West End in St. Louis, Dogtown, University City and Clayton are all near Forest Park, Washington University and the Barnes hospital complex. Close to public transportation. Safe city neighborhoods (ie. don't be stupid and you'll be fine).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many, many places in the US where they could live comfortably on $80k, especially since they have health insurance. Can you provide some guidance on a particular geographic or climate preference so I can narrow down suggestions?

Right now there is no climate/geographic preference. They want to cast a wide net.

I do think they will be happier in a city of some kind, even if it's small. I could see them living in Boise or Mobile or Providence. I cannot imagine them living in a small town unless it was basically in the suburbs/exurbs of a larger city.

Housing is not cheap in Boise, Idaho or in Providence. Mobile, Alabama is an interesting thought.

They don't need ultra-cheap housing -- they can afford to pay around 2k/mo in rent. That won't work in NYC but you can find places like that in Boise and Providence. Just poking around on Zillow, Boise has a ton of updated 2-bedroom apartments in that price range, with washers and driers and other amenities. Providence is slimmer pickings (owing partly to older housing stock which might make a lot of the apartments inappropriate for retirees, though it may also be a terrible time of year to find housing in Providence since most places vacated by graduating students have likely already been filled for fall already -- I'd try to look either outside the college housing cycle (winter, early spring) or jump in early on that cycle in May or early June).

Mobile is dirt cheap -- it's hard to find a 2 bedroom for MORE than 2k there, and you have tons of nice options in the 1300-1500 range. It may honestly be too cheap for this situation where the couple has 80k to spend on living expenses and no reason to spend LESS than that. Mobile might not allow them to maximize that income, frankly. Might be worth it to spend more to live in a place where your extra rent money also gets you access to more cultural events, a livelier restaurant scene, proximity to a bigger airport or other cities for weekend getaways, etc. Providence in particular would offer a lot of bang for its buck because of all the many events and resources at the universities there -- you could go to art shows at RISD and plays at Brown, spend summer days at any of a number of beaches, go to NYC or Boston for the night, etc. Might be worth living in an older apartment with just one bathroom or shared laundry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many, many places in the US where they could live comfortably on $80k, especially since they have health insurance. Can you provide some guidance on a particular geographic or climate preference so I can narrow down suggestions?

Right now there is no climate/geographic preference. They want to cast a wide net.

I do think they will be happier in a city of some kind, even if it's small. I could see them living in Boise or Mobile or Providence. I cannot imagine them living in a small town unless it was basically in the suburbs/exurbs of a larger city.

Housing is not cheap in Boise, Idaho or in Providence. Mobile, Alabama is an interesting thought.

Providence might not be “cheap” but it’s incredibly affordable, has a lively arts scene, good food, an airport, and close to Boston and NYC via Amtrak.

https://www.redfin.com/RI/Providence/333-Atwells-Ave-02903/unit-302/home/51732095

https://www.redfin.com/RI/Providence/Strive-Lofts/apartment/181834783

I’d much rather live there before I retire to bumble town, USA.

Anywhere in Central or South America. And with 80,000 in income, be prepared to be top 2.5%. Nice life!

Anonymous wrote:80k?! Is this a joke? That is not enough money to live comfortably anywhere that is not straight up third world. Like you will be living like a local with no ac and a squat toilet in Eastern Europe/Asia.

The joke is you. How stupid people like you breathe without a constant reminder is mind-boggling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many, many places in the US where they could live comfortably on $80k, especially since they have health insurance. Can you provide some guidance on a particular geographic or climate preference so I can narrow down suggestions?

Right now there is no climate/geographic preference. They want to cast a wide net.

I do think they will be happier in a city of some kind, even if it's small. I could see them living in Boise or Mobile or Providence. I cannot imagine them living in a small town unless it was basically in the suburbs/exurbs of a larger city.

Housing is not cheap in Boise, Idaho or in Providence. Mobile, Alabama is an interesting thought.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I do want to clarify that the 80k is pre-tax. It's a pension.

For context, this is a couple in their late 50s looking at early retirement. They recently sold a business for a nice chunk of change plus have plenty of retirement savings. They are ready to leave the rat race but they are still young and they'd like to try living in the pension income only until their early 60s. One of them is a writer and wants to pursue that more seriously, the other is unsure but would like to do something similar. They may dip into their reserves for travel, but otherwise they'd like to live somewhat simply, somewhere with a low cost of living, while they pursue their passions. They are willing to try out multiple places. They don't want to live in the DC area (BTDT, plus they feel they will be pressured into a higher cost lifestyle here because of their peers in the area).

I am helping them make a list of possibilities. Schools are a non-issue, but they want a safe, lively neighborhood and be close enough to a decent sized airport to easily travel and be visited. Second bedroom for friends and family. They don't want to pinch pennies too much but are fine living on a budget as they don't have luxury tastes.

Some good options so far! I'd love to know if there are any European cities that seem feasible because, selfishly, I want to visit them there. Someone asked about the health insurance issue -- they've told me they think it would be feasible to get coverage abroad but need to investigate more. They have access to an employer sponsored plan via BCBS and there are apparently options that would work abroad, but I don't know the details.

Upstate NY: Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, even Binghamton. You will need a car and a SFH, but you can live like a king. Will be cold but August is beautiful.

Everywhere.

80K is plenty if I don't have to be close to my work, or I don't have kids to worry about, and I don't have to save for retirement/college - I would rent an apartment for 2K, and live on 1K a week. Easily. Enough for a retired couple, and they would save too.

My married AC in grad school is living off of 80K HHI. They are in a nice apartment, they go out, they save, they entertain, have gym membership, they travel and they also shop.

80k a year pre-tax in the US, I would do Buffalo NY or Rochester NY.

Internationally, you can stay in Albania as a tourist for a year without a visa, so that may be a good way to dip your toe into trying to live abroad to see if its for you without having to go through the visa process. Mexico is six months, and then its easy to leave and come back.

Anonymous wrote:80k?! Is this a joke? That is not enough money to live comfortably anywhere that is not straight up third world. Like you will be living like a local with no ac and a squat toilet in Eastern Europe/Asia.

Most people in America do not earn this much. You need to travel more and talk to people not from your rich people bubble.