Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…

Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.

IYKYK. Sorry you are not part of the club. Have fun with your international grad school rankings.

Anonymous wrote:Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…

Cause they are. What a ridiculous post. Is the nation’s most important medical research institution and one of the most rigorous and consequential colleges in the country as good as two random small colleges in Massachusetts and not even the 3rd best college in California? Yes, they’re much better than Williams Amherst and Pomona.

Some people think Johns Hopkins and Chicago are above Williams and Amherst (and Pomona). Some of us know better. That’s really what this comes down to…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)

What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.

You have no experience with Williams.

Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.

Someone who has obviously never attended an ivy institution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)

What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.

You have no experience with Williams.

Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.

I have no doubts that Williams grads think excruciatingly high about themselves. That is evident in every post where they feel an urge to soapbox about its superiority which absolutely no one has asked for.

Casually speaking, T10s are pretty much US News top 20 schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)

What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.

You have no experience with Williams.

Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.

What? No you’re wrong. Harvard has a much better “residential focus” than Williams. Just having a few dorms on campus doesn’t make your housing any special. You think the residential colleges at Yale are being trounced by Williams college? Please!

You have more opportunities at ivy, including working with people from those graduate institutions that Williams grads cling to for approval. My first year Yale DD is currently working in a lab by a well known neuroscience researcher, because those opportunities are easy to come by; meanwhile, a Williams student has to find and place into a very competitive REU just to get the same opportunity. Every rec letter DD will get is from a well known researcher, meanwhile, Williams grads have to outsource from REUs to get the same result.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)

What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.

You have no experience with Williams.

Almost anyone who has attended Williams and then HYPSM after- a notable contingency, given that HYP tend to be the top graduate school destinations- will tell you how substantial the difference in teaching excellence, mentorship, and feedback on assignments and projects is available to the average undergrad at Williams compared to that at the university. They will also highlight the clear residential focus of Williams and the deep camaraderie in the community that is not readily found at most Ivies.

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, Cal and Michigan should be included in the top 10. These schools offer academic breadth along with top ranked programs. Cornell, for example, provides top-tier programs across engineering, business, agriculture, arts and sciences, along specialized schools like hotel management and ILR. Cal and Michigan similarly offerstop engineering, business, social sciences, and humanities.

A student at Williams or Amherst cannot pursue undergraduate engineering, business, agriculture, or many professional programs. This limitation, while intentional, makes these institutions unsuitable for a general top 10 ranking that should reflect the full spectrum of undergraduate educational opportunity reflect current educational trends.

I'm with you on Cornell but I can't take Michigan seriously as a T10 contender. State schools simply aren't that selective for kids who live in-state. Berkeley comes closest due to the size of California. But as a Michigan alum, I can vouch that most of the in-state kids aren't that smart. It's not the peer group a T10 applicant is looking for.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t know about Williams and their superlative undergraduate program doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on this. The Ivies have tried to emulate the LAC model directly from Amherst and Williams. None of them offer winter study and individualized tutorials. Williams is arguably a stronger education than at least HYS (Princeton is the only comparable Ivy academically)

What a bunch of BS. Williams has tried its hardest to replicate the things it sees the ivies excel at. HYPSM all have better undergraduate education than Williams with 20-100x the amount of course selection and depth of content. Williams is great for the mediocre upper middle class kid that went to boarding school and needs 1-on-1 attention to climb, but any competitive student will have so many more resources at an ivy, especially these days.

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, Cal and Michigan should be included in the top 10. These schools offer academic breadth along with top ranked programs. Cornell, for example, provides top-tier programs across engineering, business, agriculture, arts and sciences, along specialized schools like hotel management and ILR. Cal and Michigan similarly offerstop engineering, business, social sciences, and humanities.

A student at Williams or Amherst cannot pursue undergraduate engineering, business, agriculture, or many professional programs. This limitation, while intentional, makes these institutions unsuitable for a general top 10 ranking that should reflect the full spectrum of undergraduate educational opportunity reflect current educational trends.

You can’t do agriculture at almost any top school. Elite colleges aren’t in the business of making laborers.

Cornell, Cal and Michigan should be included in the top 10. These schools offer academic breadth along with top ranked programs. Cornell, for example, provides top-tier programs across engineering, business, agriculture, arts and sciences, along specialized schools like hotel management and ILR. Cal and Michigan similarly offerstop engineering, business, social sciences, and humanities.

A student at Williams or Amherst cannot pursue undergraduate engineering, business, agriculture, or many professional programs. This limitation, while intentional, makes these institutions unsuitable for a general top 10 ranking that should reflect the full spectrum of undergraduate educational opportunity reflect current educational trends.

Anonymous wrote:Not all ivys are T10 only. Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown are not T10.

Stanford
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Yale
Upenn
Duke
UCHICAGO
Johns Hopkins
Columbia

This is the best, or possibly Northwestern in for Johns Hopkins.

Anonymous wrote:How it it possible that so many people stumble upon the internet, find this website, and post some version of this question daily?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYPSM
Penn, Columbia, Brown, Duke, Caltech

No idea why people are discussing Rice, Williams, or Chicago

Chicago makes perfect sense. It is a highly cerebral place with awesome post grad success. Definitely deserves to be in the conversation. Rice is forgettable, and Williams? not even sure I know where or what it is.

+1. Chicago has been top for a long time. It’s why in their IPEDS comparison groups, Harvard lists only Duke, Hopkins, MIT, Stanford, and Chicago, and Yale lists only MIT, Stanford, and Chicago as non-Ivy peers.