Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the cutting off is used to liberally. For abuse, sure, no argument from me, but there is a thread in the Family forum about stopping going to visit grandparents because they are boring.

My mother grates on my nerves. She repeats stories and gets fixated on inconsequential things, but she's in her 80s for goodness sake. I called that woman every day for years when I had babies and small children. She was my lifeline when I needed support, had moved to a new city, and was lonely. If I'm totally honest, talking to her doesn't "bring me joy" at this point, but how horrible would it be of me to stop that effort because I find it tedious because the poor woman is old. Very horrible.

Whose version of abuse? I worked with a woman who cried to anyone who would pay attention that her son and daughter-in-law truly cut her off. “All” she had done was question her grandchild’s paternity and send a sample for an unauthorized DNA test. Now she knows it’s her biological grandchild she’s cut off from!

But hey she never hit anyone so that’s an argument from you?

There might be more to the story than what you are aware of. In that situation, I don't think that I would cut off my parents, but maybe I've just seen more crap than others and so I'm less bothered by things.

If someone accused my spouse of infidelity and carried out medical testing on my child without my consent I’d cut them off in a heartbeat. Which is why it’s not up to us to decide what a good reason for another person is.

It's concerning people like "Dr." Phil and "Dr." Laura still have a platform and people like OP hang on their every word.

For a while I was very close to cutting off my parents. My mom would physically drag me out of the house if I didn't eat her meal and would beat me if I didn't do what she wanted. I was stuck in "that place" of emotional pain for a while well into my adulthood. When I had my own children, I vowed to not be anything like my parents. I did the opposite. I tried to be nurturing and put their needs ahead of mine. I never physically or mentally abused them. Like the vast majority of parents, I love my kids tremendously. However, one of my kids ended up hating me and being estranged (she will not tell me why). Ironically, this estrangement helped me begin the journey of healing my relationship with my own parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the cutting off is used to liberally. For abuse, sure, no argument from me, but there is a thread in the Family forum about stopping going to visit grandparents because they are boring.

My mother grates on my nerves. She repeats stories and gets fixated on inconsequential things, but she's in her 80s for goodness sake. I called that woman every day for years when I had babies and small children. She was my lifeline when I needed support, had moved to a new city, and was lonely. If I'm totally honest, talking to her doesn't "bring me joy" at this point, but how horrible would it be of me to stop that effort because I find it tedious because the poor woman is old. Very horrible.

Whose version of abuse? I worked with a woman who cried to anyone who would pay attention that her son and daughter-in-law truly cut her off. “All” she had done was question her grandchild’s paternity and send a sample for an unauthorized DNA test. Now she knows it’s her biological grandchild she’s cut off from!

But hey she never hit anyone so that’s an argument from you?

There might be more to the story than what you are aware of. In that situation, I don't think that I would cut off my parents, but maybe I've just seen more crap than others and so I'm less bothered by things.

Estrangement has been around forever-plenty of estrangements in my family on both sides, it just wasn't discussed much. Now there is less stigma.

Also, I suspect estrangement has not caused more suffering, it has just transferred it. The person who finally gave up and parted ways often spent years trying tips and strategies to have a healthier relationship and nothing worked. Eventually there is relief, calm, peace. Now the person who got cut off has to deal with their demons rather than offload.

In my case I am low contact. I spent years in therapy trying tips. My whole childhood I tried to please mom and be what she needed but the requirements kept changing. In adulthood once I had enough of my own life stress I could no longer brush off tantrums, insults, threats, etc. I kept stepping back until we found a comfort zone. At one point she cut me off and it was so calm and refreshing.

She got therapy and went on meds and we could have a relationship until she went off them both, because "that's for crazies!" so we are low contact and I don't allow anymore fits of rage.

Like another poster, nobody would suspect behind closed doors in childhood what was really happening and I didn't realize just how emotionally and verbally abusive she was until I heard myself talking about it. "You mean it's not normal for someone to wave around a butcher knife and make threats?"

“I was watching Dr. Phil and…”

Yeah, I’m gonna stop you right there.

I think most adults can get over most things that happened when they were kids, except for serious abuse. I think parents, including mine, get cut off for how they treat their adult kids. My parents just can't seem to be consistently kind to me. I've tried all sorts of boundaries until I finally gave up and put more distance between us.

I still feel bad about it, but then realize that my parents can't maintain any relationships. They'll make friends and be friendly with someone for at most 1-2 years and then the relationship spectacularly implodes. We moved a bunch when I was growing up, which disguised the problem, but it's become more clear over the years. My mom is unstable and invents fake storylines in her head about people and events and my dad can't relate to anyone and just repeats the same handful of tired stories about himself (he's most certainly on the spectrum). I wish we could have a relationship but they are just so...ugh. They'll be nice for a bit and then you don't know what hit you. Drama. Accusations. Insults. Criticism. Ugh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is due to social media, but not in the way he meant. Before social media, it was super easy to minimize the contact with your parents to maybe a visit every other year and a phone call once every few weeks. If they are local, then a dinner out every couple of months. No need to declare anything for anyone.

Enter social media. If one or both sides tend to post every sneeze, the state of the relationship is now a daily dilemma.

This is an insightful and nuanced take, PP - thank you. I'm VLC with my parents, who were VLC with their parents (their parents were an ocean away in a time of expensive long distance calls and flights) and I totally agree that the pressure to constantly check in via text/social media makes it much more obvious that VLC is in fact intentional.

PP. The more I think of it, the more I realize how social media sows the outrage. Someone above said that it’s OK to cut off your relatives if they are homophobic. I (GenX) honestly have no idea how my grandparents (Greatest Generation) voted or what they thought about gays. There are no gays in my immediate family and the topic never came up during my conversations with my grandparents otherwise.

But what if there were? This is one of those things that has made me very protective of my teen DD and very wary of my parents. It’s made me think a lot about unconditional love. My parents love me and my kids, no doubt, but it’s always felt very conditional.

PP. Knowing my grandparents, the reaction would probably be something along the lines of “strange, but whatever”. Which is sort of what happened when my brother (we are Jewish) married a Muslim woman. Both sides were somewhat apprehensive but everyone lived and is still talking to each other; the lamb last week was delicious.

Anonymous wrote:I think the cutting off is used to liberally. For abuse, sure, no argument from me, but there is a thread in the Family forum about stopping going to visit grandparents because they are boring.

My mother grates on my nerves. She repeats stories and gets fixated on inconsequential things, but she's in her 80s for goodness sake. I called that woman every day for years when I had babies and small children. She was my lifeline when I needed support, had moved to a new city, and was lonely. If I'm totally honest, talking to her doesn't "bring me joy" at this point, but how horrible would it be of me to stop that effort because I find it tedious because the poor woman is old. Very horrible.

Whose version of abuse? I worked with a woman who cried to anyone who would pay attention that her son and daughter-in-law truly cut her off. “All” she had done was question her grandchild’s paternity and send a sample for an unauthorized DNA test. Now she knows it’s her biological grandchild she’s cut off from!

But hey she never hit anyone so that’s an argument from you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw on Dr. Phil the other day that 1 in 4 families are dealing with estrangement where adult children are completely cutting off their parents (not due to any real abuse, abandonment, neglect, etc.). I see so many videos on instagram/facebook/etc. where people are advocating that you cancel your parents if they do not validate your feelings or don't agree with you. What is wrong with our society? Why are we throwing away our parents so easily. I think that it doesn't help that therapists these days encourage their clients to break away from their folks rather than repair the relationship. I also noticed that these days everyone is using all the same lingo: "toxic," "narcisstic," "gaslighting," etc.

What is this assessment based on? Reports by the parents or the kids?

Everyone I know who is estranged from their parents has a very good reason to be, and it tends to be a reason their parents know, but don’t “agree” with.

Of course there are always two sides to every story and you only hear one side of it.

That’s…not really the point though is it?

For example. I know a woman in her 30s whose parents insisted on including her cousin, a convicted violent felon with multiple offenses, in holidays. So she stopped going to holidays because she didn’t feel safe. Ultimately their decision to prioritize her cousin over her led to her cutting them off. After her cousin died of an overdose they wondered why she didn’t come back to holidays.

They never abused her. They didn’t neglect her. But no matter what their “side” of why they made their choice is, they know the reason they are estranged. But in a report like the above they would fall into this weird category of “no real abuse or neglect” which is why I wonder who is doing this reporting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw on Dr. Phil the other day that 1 in 4 families are dealing with estrangement where adult children are completely cutting off their parents (not due to any real abuse, abandonment, neglect, etc.). I see so many videos on instagram/facebook/etc. where people are advocating that you cancel your parents if they do not validate your feelings or don't agree with you. What is wrong with our society? Why are we throwing away our parents so easily. I think that it doesn't help that therapists these days encourage their clients to break away from their folks rather than repair the relationship. I also noticed that these days everyone is using all the same lingo: "toxic," "narcisstic," "gaslighting," etc.

What is this assessment based on? Reports by the parents or the kids?

Everyone I know who is estranged from their parents has a very good reason to be, and it tends to be a reason their parents know, but don’t “agree” with.

Of course there are always two sides to every story and you only hear one side of it.

Anonymous wrote:I saw on Dr. Phil the other day that 1 in 4 families are dealing with estrangement where adult children are completely cutting off their parents (not due to any real abuse, abandonment, neglect, etc.). I see so many videos on instagram/facebook/etc. where people are advocating that you cancel your parents if they do not validate your feelings or don't agree with you. What is wrong with our society? Why are we throwing away our parents so easily. I think that it doesn't help that therapists these days encourage their clients to break away from their folks rather than repair the relationship. I also noticed that these days everyone is using all the same lingo: "toxic," "narcisstic," "gaslighting," etc.

What is this assessment based on? Reports by the parents or the kids?

Everyone I know who is estranged from their parents has a very good reason to be, and it tends to be a reason their parents know, but don’t “agree” with.

Anonymous wrote:Each generation breaks away.

Boomers were raised by a generation of true closet sociopaths. Your sweet grandparents or great grandparents of the silent generation probably beat them with belts, spoons, stuck soap in their mouth and demanded total obedience behind closed doors. Boomers bit back by placing their parents in nursing homes and not looking back. Boomers also took a hands off and stay one rung above complete neglect approach with their kids.

Now boomers are seeking obedience and attention but they have no tools or control to demand it. It’s creating control anxiety. Add in generational behaviors that are foreign to Gen X and millennials like the pout pout and manipulation and you get younger people saying no. If the boomer won’t accept no, then the younger person walks away.

I suspect that GenX , whose big parenting flaw is helicoptering as a reaction to being ignored by their boomer parents, are struggling with the Gen z kids trying to break away. If they don’t back off, their kids will walk away.

The pattern here is that if you keep demanding something from an adult that they don’t want, don’t take no for an answer, and behave with a sense of entitlement then you will wind up estranged. It’s your fault because you left the other no other option.

100%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Each generation breaks away.

Boomers were raised by a generation of true closet sociopaths. Your sweet grandparents or great grandparents of the silent generation probably beat them with belts, spoons, stuck soap in their mouth and demanded total obedience behind closed doors. Boomers bit back by placing their parents in nursing homes and not looking back. Boomers also took a hands off and stay one rung above complete neglect approach with their kids.

Now boomers are seeking obedience and attention but they have no tools or control to demand it. It’s creating control anxiety. Add in generational behaviors that are foreign to Gen X and millennials like the pout pout and manipulation and you get younger people saying no. If the boomer won’t accept no, then the younger person walks away.

I suspect that GenX , whose big parenting flaw is helicoptering as a reaction to being ignored by their boomer parents, are struggling with the Gen z kids trying to break away. If they don’t back off, their kids will walk away.

The pattern here is that if you keep demanding something from an adult that they don’t want, don’t take no for an answer, and behave with a sense of entitlement then you will wind up estranged. It’s your fault because you left the other no other option.

+1

Whoever wrote this post - incredibly insightful. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:I think the cutting off is used to liberally. For abuse, sure, no argument from me, but there is a thread in the Family forum about stopping going to visit grandparents because they are boring.

My mother grates on my nerves. She repeats stories and gets fixated on inconsequential things, but she's in her 80s for goodness sake. I called that woman every day for years when I had babies and small children. She was my lifeline when I needed support, had moved to a new city, and was lonely. If I'm totally honest, talking to her doesn't "bring me joy" at this point, but how horrible would it be of me to stop that effort because I find it tedious because the poor woman is old. Very horrible.

Exactly! I feel the same way. My mom definitely gets on my nerves, particularly when she treats me like I'm still 5 from time to time. I also have some very bad memories with her from my childhood. Still, she is my mother. I know that she genuinely loves me. If I got hurt or was in trouble, she would be there for me. If I died, I know that she would be devastated. I know that she tried her best with what she knew and what she thought was the best. I choose to forgive her, rather than discard her. Also, as most us know, forgiving is not the same as forgetting.