Anonymous wrote:Mine was a recruited rower, and my husband and I are a couple of hicks from the midwest who went to crappy third tier state schools with no loans and no parental support. We had multiple jobs to pay for it, were commuters, and had zero fun. We had no knowledge of Ivies before we came to DC. And, therewas no rowing in our midwest state when we were growing up.

Was this an answer to the original question?

Mine was a recruited rower, and my husband and I are a couple of hicks from the midwest who went to crappy third tier state schools with no loans and no parental support. We had multiple jobs to pay for it, were commuters, and had zero fun. We had no knowledge of Ivies before we came to DC. And, therewas no rowing in our midwest state when we were growing up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends. A standard smart kid from the 'burbs has no shot at Harvard or Yale. But Cornell is still accessible for smart and talented students without hooks.

Even Cornell CALs / ILR still requires quite a bit of activities to get in. Dentist rich 'burb parents are the most zealous push.

Agree that Cornell is the easiest among ivies, followed by Penn non-Wharton.

At our school, Cornell easiest, followed by Dartmouth, Brown and then Columbia and non-Wharton Penn (from easiest to hardest). Then Wharton after that. HYP almost all legacy or big donor.

Anonymous wrote:What percent of students do you think get into Ivy leagues who are both:

- completely unhooked and by that I mean, including Rural, first GEN, low income, minority, athletes, feeder schools, come from states that produce few applicants, etc.

AND

- have zero pushing from parents (to join/start/continue activities, college admissions counselors, essay help, etc) OR anything that results in a curated college app.

Percentage is very low.

Anonymous wrote:Bright kids weren't going to state flagships 30 years ago?

I think PP was saying in the 90's there are very few parents who pushed, whereas nowadays there are more.
Most of the ivy admits nowadays are curated, bright kids on their own legs have no chance these days, whereas bright kids on their own had a chance to go to ivies.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked public got in, only help was essay edit by a parent but nothing majorly changed. Kid was very accomplished, researched a ton and knew to make a cohesive story, and did well. I don’t think expensive consultants are necessary.

Yes, the vast majority of students research extensively, know how to craft a cohesive story and do it well. They also go to bed early.

No, but the ones that get in unhooked do. That’s the point, they aren’t typical, and never have been.

This. Unhooked kids at ivies and other T15 are not at all typical. When you have had multiple kids go through the process, or if you are a teacher in a rigorous high school that sends 20% UVA/T25 but only a few to ivy/T10, you can see the difference. The latter are self-motivated, seek out challenging courses, ace the hard APs/99th+%ile since they were little, natural leaders in the classroom with the respect of teachers and peers, have energy and time left to pursue outside arts/ECs and still manage to get all As with 7-8 hrs of sleep at night. There is nothing normal or typical about the unhooked kids at the ivy level.
Those that are over-managed and pushed by parents to grind all the time and try to keep up with these kids usually do not land at ivies and if they do they do not thrive there.

Anonymous wrote:Bright kids like this still end up super successful but they aren’t going to Harvard undergrad like they did 30 years ago. They end up at state flagships.

Bright kids like what? Unhooked?

Bright kids weren't going to state flagships 30 years ago?

Bright kids like this still end up super successful but they aren’t going to Harvard undergrad like they did 30 years ago. They end up at state flagships.

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Anonymous wrote:Not sure, but I think this is the kid that ivies want. They want Barrack Obama at 16-years-old, not a lot of SAT tutoring or curating, with an organically developed passion for community activism. Only they would've wanted him with a 4.0. Not sure what his actual GPA was at the time but pretty sure it wasn't a 4.0.

Obama went to THE most elite private high in Hawaii. They don’t give out As easily, I am pretty sure he didn’t have 4.0. Most likely no one at his school had 4.0.

I don’t think he was a community activist back in high school. He was raised by his white grandparents.

And college admissions were much much easier at his time. Just different times.

He also didn’t get into an Ivy. I do think if he’d had the 4.0 and the community activism, he would’ve been exactly what Princeton was looking for. Today’s ivies want kids that will become adults who bring them glory. They try to poke through the curation to the authenticity, because future leaders probably do have inner drives that go beyond resume building. If they had a crystal ball that told them the marijuana smoking 3.7 kid from Hawaii would one day be president, they would use that ball every time.

These colleges are not aligned with parents, who want kids to be safe, secure, comfortable and in the right networks and social circles.

Obama went to Occidental then transfer to Columbia so I consider he being in an ivy (but not Trump).
3.7 or not, those elite high school is highly selective at first place, to get in and to survive for four years. I have no doubt about his aptitude.
Harris is another example, a great future leader who didn't get in ivies.
Anyway, I don't think Ivies are particularly good at screening for future leaders. People are reading too much into it.

Harris? Kamala Harris??? An example of a great future leader?????? Did you fall out of a coconut tree?

Measured against the current leadership she falls into the great category. It's not a high bar.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say 80% of the students at DC's school who goes to Ivies have the help of parents who are really involved in shaping their ECs and/or academics strategically. The other 20% don't have super type A parents but at least half of that 20% is hooked in some way.

Honestly, a fair number of those 80% sort of burn out and are not anymore successful than the kids who went to UVA or Michigan who didn't have helicopter parents steering them in high school.

Hard to say without statistics.
Many helicopter parents continue pushing during college years and postgrad.

+1

Anonymous wrote:I would say 80% of the students at DC's school who goes to Ivies have the help of parents who are really involved in shaping their ECs and/or academics strategically. The other 20% don't have super type A parents but at least half of that 20% is hooked in some way.

Honestly, a fair number of those 80% sort of burn out and are not anymore successful than the kids who went to UVA or Michigan who didn't have helicopter parents steering them in high school.

Hard to say without statistics.
Many helicopter parents continue pushing during college years and postgrad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked public got in, only help was essay edit by a parent but nothing majorly changed. Kid was very accomplished, researched a ton and knew to make a cohesive story, and did well. I don’t think expensive consultants are necessary.

Yes, the vast majority of students research extensively, know how to craft a cohesive story and do it well. They also go to bed early.

No, but the ones that get in unhooked do. That’s the point, they aren’t typical, and never have been.

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked public got in, only help was essay edit by a parent but nothing majorly changed. Kid was very accomplished, researched a ton and knew to make a cohesive story, and did well. I don’t think expensive consultants are necessary.

Yes, the vast majority of students research extensively, know how to craft a cohesive story and do it well. They also go to bed early.

My unhooked public got in, only help was essay edit by a parent but nothing majorly changed. Kid was very accomplished, researched a ton and knew to make a cohesive story, and did well. I don’t think expensive consultants are necessary.