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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Shocked that France is not on this list. It has to be because they like to complain!

I'm pretty sure that's why the US is so low on there. Most people I know are very happy. There's a segment of society that catastrophizes everything and complains very loudly. My sibling is like that. She gets herself worked up about things that don't even apply to her. For instance, student loans. She goes on these massive rants online about student loans and she has plenty of followers. Except my parents paid for her apartment, car, living expenses, undergrad and graduate school in full. I know she never had a student loan.

Wow. I'm sure you think you come off as the sane and happy one to yourself in this story, but I applaud your sister for championing cases that she will never benefit from. You are the epitome of selfishness which makes people in this country miserable.

Nope. I'm not selfish at all. DH had student loans (80k) and we paid them off in under 5 years. It wasn't the end of the world although I am obviously incredibly lucky I didn't have student loans myself. Our jobs aren't fantastic, but they're steady and we both make 100k. I think that student loans are pictured as the evil, but instead I think we should be reining in college costs. We need to make it a bit more bare bones and less luxurious with cleaning ladies and lazy rivers.

My sister is selling a false narrative by telling people she had student loans to gain followers.

Yes, we have 3 European offices and all are vastly different than our various US offices. Sometimes I'm envious of them. Sometimes I let out a silent scream at how slowly they do things. It depends on the day.

Biggest thing I've noticed is that Europeans work to live. They don't care about titles, upward mobility, raises, promotions, etc. They have very good work/life balances and have zero problems telling you something will have to wait until tomorrow.

Americans live to work. We're clout and achievement chasers. If you don't think that's true, look at the signature field in some emails you receive from your US colleagues. You will probably see at least 5+ designations/certifications. Now compare those signature fields to European clients/vendors. You may see one or two designations/certifications. If something is due and I'm running behind, I work extra to make sure it is done on time. I can't imagine ever telling my boss "Sorry, I'm going to miss this deadline and will have to work on it more tomorrow. I'll let you know if it's completed then and submit." But that happens all the time with my European colleagues.

Also, I probably would use up all my generous vacation time if I was only a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from many of the countries they are. It's no big deal for most to pop over to another country for a long weekend but not economically practical for us to do that in the US. The colleague I'm closest with in our London office was shocked that the trip I have planned for my family of 5 to Europe this summer is coming in at around $10k right now.

Hah! Expand into China, OP, and you’ll feel like a slacker.

here is a good overview:


🇺🇸 U.S. Middle Class (Baseline)
Home: Large (~2,000–2,400 sq ft), detached, affordable by global standards.
Education: College often required but expensive; skilled trades (electrician, plumber, HVAC, trucking) offer solid middle-class incomes without degrees.
Consumerism: High — easy access to goods, credit, cars, tech.
Healthcare: Expensive, insurance-tied; financial risk even for middle class.
Work-Life: Low vacation (2 weeks), long hours, burnout common.
Mobility: High risk/high reward — real shot at wealth, especially in business or trades.

Spain
Home: Small (~1,000–1,200 sq ft), usually apartments.
Education: Cheap public college; trades and tourism viable paths.
Consumerism: Modest — lower income, fewer luxuries.
Healthcare: Universal and free.
Work-Life: Excellent — long vacations, social focus.
Mobility: Low; harder to rise economically.
Verdict: Great lifestyle balance; little financial upside.

France
Home: Compact (~1,100 sq ft), urban-focused.
Education: Nearly free college; trades respected.
Consumerism: Moderate — quality over quantity.
Healthcare: World-class universal care.
Work-Life: Strong labor rights, 5+ weeks off.
Mobility: Limited; bureaucracy and class inertia.
Verdict: Secure and dignified life, but upward ceiling is low.

United Kingdom
Home: Smallest in Europe (~950–1,100 sq ft).
Education: Degree needed, but capped loan system.
Consumerism: Strong, but housing costs bite.
Healthcare: NHS — free and reliable.
Work-Life: Better than U.S., not as good as Europe.
Mobility: Similar to U.S., but more class-bound.
Verdict: Culturally close to U.S., but with better safety nets.

Norway
Home: Medium (~1,300–1,500 sq ft), high quality.
Education: Free college; trades common.
Consumerism: Low — high prices, modest culture.
Healthcare: Universal, excellent quality.
Work-Life: Exceptional — lots of time off, social support.
Mobility: Very equal society; fewer paths to big wealth.
Verdict: Most secure middle-class life; less economic upside.

Finland
Home: ~1,100–1,300 sq ft; efficient, modest.
Education: Free and elite; trades respected.
Consumerism: Low-key; expensive imports.
Healthcare: Universal and efficient.
Work-Life: Family-first, short hours, top-ranked happiness.
Mobility: Stable but flat — little extreme wealth.
Verdict: Ideal for balance and security; not for getting rich.

Sweden
Home: ~1,100–1,400 sq ft; minimalistic.
Education: Free; college optional.
Consumerism: Sustainable, restrained.
Healthcare: Public, high quality.
Work-Life: Among the best — parental leave, flexible work.
Mobility: Equal society; few riches, few risks.
Verdict: Highly livable and balanced; limited ambition ceiling.


If you want space, goods, freedom to hustle, and the potential to get rich, the U.S. is unbeatable — especially if you're open to skilled trades instead of college. You'll work harder, but the payoff can be big.

If you want healthcare security, free education, lots of time off, and a modest, stable lifestyle, then Europe — especially Scandinavia — is far more livable. You won’t have a mansion or five cars, but you also won’t fear a hospital bill or die under student debt.

The U.S. is about individual risk and reward.
Europe is about collective safety and dignity.

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

I doubt this is recent. What year is it, PP?

2025

https://www.happierlivesinstitute.org/2025/03/20/the-top-25-happiest-countries-in-2025-plus-our-four-favourite-findings-from-the-2025-world-happiness-report/

My family is Finnish. These surveys always make them laugh. There is a lot about Finnish life that would make Americans unhappy. They stay “happy” because they are unbothered by these things.

Based on the college forum, 50% of DCUM parents would not survive grey skies coupled with cold winter weather.

Anonymous wrote:My last three European jobs where I worked in the US I made more than my boss in Europe which was odd.

They have tons of protections but the actual hard workers who never take advantage of that get paid way less than they deserve.

My last European boss kept asking why do I keep working or why do I care about how much I am paid. I wanted more money. It was mainly I had a job paying triple his current pay at my peak earnings years and he said when I was being honest he would retire for life if he earned that much between 45 and 56. I had to explain how much college costs, how much I had to pay for health insurance if I lost job, that I still have a mortgage and three cars and he was shocked since I had two kids in college at time, tuition was around 100K a year the two, medical would be 24K, my house would cost me 60k alone. For him he was shocked a man my age had that much expenses. College and Medical is like nothing in Europe for parents. Many rent or have small houses. And there is no 30 year mortgage. Folks have mortgage paid off sooner. He was also surprised when I quit for a higher paying more demanding job.

And they are surprised at kids. My company the average US person had 3 kids, they had tons of parents with only one kid and surprised amount of SAHM wives. They are mainly dual income.

I get weird conversations from a 50 year old European male worker with one child and a working wife talking getting ready to retire to an American man who is 50 with a 47 year old spouse withe a 12, 14 and 16 year old at home with a mortgage that is not paid off for 20 years.

They have no clue we get paid more as expenses are so much higher.

You could also live a lot more frugally. You just choose not to.

My last three European jobs where I worked in the US I made more than my boss in Europe which was odd.

They have tons of protections but the actual hard workers who never take advantage of that get paid way less than they deserve.

My last European boss kept asking why do I keep working or why do I care about how much I am paid. I wanted more money. It was mainly I had a job paying triple his current pay at my peak earnings years and he said when I was being honest he would retire for life if he earned that much between 45 and 56. I had to explain how much college costs, how much I had to pay for health insurance if I lost job, that I still have a mortgage and three cars and he was shocked since I had two kids in college at time, tuition was around 100K a year the two, medical would be 24K, my house would cost me 60k alone. For him he was shocked a man my age had that much expenses. College and Medical is like nothing in Europe for parents. Many rent or have small houses. And there is no 30 year mortgage. Folks have mortgage paid off sooner. He was also surprised when I quit for a higher paying more demanding job.

And they are surprised at kids. My company the average US person had 3 kids, they had tons of parents with only one kid and surprised amount of SAHM wives. They are mainly dual income.

I get weird conversations from a 50 year old European male worker with one child and a working wife talking getting ready to retire to an American man who is 50 with a 47 year old spouse withe a 12, 14 and 16 year old at home with a mortgage that is not paid off for 20 years.

They have no clue we get paid more as expenses are so much higher.

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

I doubt this is recent. What year is it, PP?

2025

https://www.happierlivesinstitute.org/2025/03/20/the-top-25-happiest-countries-in-2025-plus-our-four-favourite-findings-from-the-2025-world-happiness-report/

My family is Finnish. These surveys always make them laugh. There is a lot about Finnish life that would make Americans unhappy. They stay “happy” because they are unbothered by these things.

It's my understanding that this is largely self-reported happiness, so I'm not sure why you or they would be laughing.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes this is obvious if you’re worked with Europeans.

Liberal websites laud their social benefits and ample leave, but rarely talk about how salaries are is incredibly low or the lack of job opportunities.

It’s painfully obvious it’s only a good place to work if you want to achieve the bare minimum.

It’s difficult to achieve much if you don’t go to work.

Most American don’t make much or achieve much, only the connected Executive class make real money. Are you one of those or just a wannabe they have fooled into thinking it could be you too?

Statistically this isn’t true.

Median Purchasing Power Parity:

the median equivalised disposable income in 2021 (USD PPP) showed:
* Luxembourg: $49,748
* United States: $48,625
* Germany: $35,537
* United Kingdom: $26,884
* France: $30,622

What statistics were you looking at?

Isn't Luxembourg completely distorted because of sovereign wealth? Might as well show Manhattan.

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

I doubt this is recent. What year is it, PP?

2025

https://www.happierlivesinstitute.org/2025/03/20/the-top-25-happiest-countries-in-2025-plus-our-four-favourite-findings-from-the-2025-world-happiness-report/

My family is Finnish. These surveys always make them laugh. There is a lot about Finnish life that would make Americans unhappy. They stay “happy” because they are unbothered by these things.

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Shocked that France is not on this list. It has to be because they like to complain!

I'm pretty sure that's why the US is so low on there. Most people I know are very happy. There's a segment of society that catastrophizes everything and complains very loudly. My sibling is like that. She gets herself worked up about things that don't even apply to her. For instance, student loans. She goes on these massive rants online about student loans and she has plenty of followers. Except my parents paid for her apartment, car, living expenses, undergrad and graduate school in full. I know she never had a student loan.

Wow. I'm sure you think you come off as the sane and happy one to yourself in this story, but I applaud your sister for championing cases that she will never benefit from. You are the epitome of selfishness which makes people in this country miserable.

Anonymous wrote:Working with our Europe branch has been quite an intense endeavor. As part of a large tech company expanding aggressively across the region, I’ve been leading hiring efforts for multiple new office locations — and I’ve hit a wall of cultural and structural friction.

Simply put: they don’t want to work long hours. They don’t want to commit. And they have a lot of demands — mandatory holidays, strict work-hour rules, protected leave policies, the list goes on.

Yes, salaries may be half the cost of U.S.-based employees, but in many cases, it feels like you’re getting half the output. And no, that’s not an exaggeration.

Here are some of the realities we’ve faced:

One employee took a full year of maternity leave, then extended it into a second year for a new baby — with no firm return date.
A male employee took one year of paternity leave, returned just in time for “mandatory” summer PTO — a month off, like clockwork.
In Spain, we’re required to offer additional vacation banks separate from standard PTO, and summer laws restrict work to no more than 5 hours a day.
New hires often start with 20+ hours of vacation built in. Day one.

The structure seems designed to protect mediocrity — not reward performance.

Ironically, our best hires in Europe have been Americans who’ve relocated, or folks from post-Soviet countries who still bring hunger, accountability, and a willingness to go above and beyond.

I get that Europe values work-life balance. But when that balance tilts so far toward comfort that productivity suffers, it raises a real question: Is it worth it?

If you’re trying to run a business, grow fast, or compete globally, these restrictions are more than just frustrating — they’re counterproductive.

No wonder the U.S. keeps leading. Say what you will about hustle culture — it gets things done.

I worked for a European Company for 10 years at their NY location. It was called "two butts one seat" approach to staffing. Between maternity leave, paternity leave, how long to fire someone and even if you hire someone with Gardening Leave rules could be 2-3 months before they start. Hence you had to over hire.

We had a women in our German Office who took max maternity leave of two years actually got pregnant with two more kids while out on leave. She left early and took max after birth of third child. My company had to hold her job for six years. Was funny, she had a desk at work, in phone book on staff list.

The European people were shocked that in NYC we can be fired at anytime, no severance required and with no garden leave requirements workers can also quit on a moments notice. They were shocked.

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Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Shocked that France is not on this list. It has to be because they like to complain!

I'm pretty sure that's why the US is so low on there. Most people I know are very happy. There's a segment of society that catastrophizes everything and complains very loudly. My sibling is like that. She gets herself worked up about things that don't even apply to her. For instance, student loans. She goes on these massive rants online about student loans and she has plenty of followers. Except my parents paid for her apartment, car, living expenses, undergrad and graduate school in full. I know she never had a student loan.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.

+1.

European work culture has it right.

Not if you want to actually earn money.

Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.

Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US

If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.

But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.

Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.

so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.

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Anonymous wrote:How many millions does your ceo get paid? I bet he can afford to give some up for maternity leave. I’m not at all proud that our ‘hustle’ culture means moms in the US return to work still bleeding from delivery and infant babies are warehoused in childcare centers. Get some perspective. Leading in what? First in making billionaires? That just makes us suckers.

NP. I agree that CEO pay is out of control. Business owners are one thing, but CEOs are hired by the company. They shouldn't be paid 100x what the lowest paid person on staff is.

But I thought 3m of maternity leave was reasonable. Most jobs really can't have people missing for longer than that without having to hire someone to replace them. I would have liked for job security instead of maternity leave. Let me take a year unpaid and then return to my same job. That would have been ideal for me.

Europe has a much more robust temp worker industry than the US for this reason. Companies WILL hire a temp to replace that person for a year or two while they are out on leave. Or, if the new mom only comes back for 50% of the time initially, the temp worker will cover the other 50%. "Job sharing" is incredibly common in Europe and makes for much better flexibility while still maintaining skillsets (relative to dropping out of the work force completely).

Say all you want about this flexibility, but it’s incredibly difficult to find a permanent job in many European countries for this reason. Not everyone wants temporary jobs.

We don't have "permanent" jobs in the U.S. - we are largely at-will. A temp contract employee in the EU still has a lot more rights than the typical U.S. worker.

+1 temp workers in the EU have pay parity with FT employees. The US does not. Temps in the EU have more safety nets than Temps in the US. I work in this area and see the protection disparities between EU and US workers. Very sad for US workers to have such little protections.