Anonymous wrote:Agreed. Marry a good person, and you must be a good person, as well.

Talk, compromise, have common goals. When you grow and change, work to grow and change together.

At the end of the day, I think for long-term marriage to work you have to WANT to stay married and do the work to make the marriage work.

I agree with this. I wouldn't say my marriage is a ton of work, but living with another human being and interacting with them on all sorts of issues is challenging even if you married the exact right person. Sometimes we view things differently. Sometimes we're tired or stressed out. Sometimes we're annoyed by the other person. But at the end of the day we want to have a happy marriage so we make the effort to resolve conflicts, care about the other person, spend quality time together, etc. Similar way that I nurture my friendships and my work relationships, although those are obviously different kinds of relationships. Being a good wife, mom, friend, employee, etc. takes work. Doing all of those things with other people who are also willing to do the work makes it a lot easier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a disingenuous thread. People congratulating themselves on the attributes that make their marriages last. I would say it’s really easy to stay married if the following things are there: fidelity, both partners fulfilling their commitments/obligations (not protracted unemployment or financial irresponsibility), no abuse (physical, emotional etc) or serious mental illness . These are the things that wreck every marriage regardless how “forgiving” and cool and what not everyone is. Even if the partners stay married - the relationship is over. And that’s what counts.

This is a really good point although some marriages do survive these problems.

DH’s mother had bipolar disorder. MIL and FIL stuck together until her death. I don’t know how happy DH’s father was with the marriage, but he did love MIL and his grief was pretty profound when she died, although there was some relief mixed in.

BIL has severe MS and SIL has been a caretaker for him for 10 years, they were never able to have children. Somehow they find happiness together, in their memories of better times in particular, and you can feel their love for each other. I don’t know how to describe that- profound? Maybe seeing the level of commitment of her parents gave SIL the tools to work through this. Maybe it is our struggles that prepare our kids for their challenges.

Your FIL was probably trauma bonded and maybe the wife wasn’t even abusive even though she was bipolar. Maybe her mental disease was mild, we don’t know.
To my point, MS is not a mental disease and doesn’t make people completely insufferable and unsafe to be around.

I don’t know what the nature of their bond was and what it was like before MIL was successfully treated. She was pretty mellow and a loving person by the time I came around. If you manage to stay married for 40+ years and love the person and raise two kids who grow into healthy adults despite having to get treated for bipolar disorder, I don’t think that’s a trauma bond, I think that’s a marriage that made it.

To your point, if you spend your 40s and beyond being a caregiver for someone who is becoming more disabled and still manage to love them, I think you’ve overcome a pretty significant challenge with pretty bad luck.

Same with us, my husband and I had to navigate our daughter having a rare disease and it coul have destroyed our marriage but it did not. That’s because we were committed to her and we work together when things get bad.

+100 to this

It's nothing you could have "known" going in, especially when you're young and neither of you has a record on which to stand. It's pure luck or else someone is willing to tolerate the other spouse regardless of their shortcomings that develop later after the wedding.


"
This is such a disingenuous thread. People congratulating themselves on the attributes that make their marriages last. I would say it’s really easy to stay married if the following things are there: fidelity, both partners fulfilling their commitments/obligations (not protracted unemployment or financial irresponsibility), no abuse (physical, emotional etc) or serious mental illness . These are the things that wreck every marriage regardless how “forgiving” and cool and what not everyone is. Even if the partners stay married - the relationship is over. And that’s what counts."

Honestly because we're friends in addition to being married. So we can watch Deep Space Nine together when the day is done and enjoy it.

Anonymous wrote:16 years, 5 kids.
Attribute to extremely good physical chemistry. Good sex can be balm on a lot of issues. Understanding divorce is not an option. Lots of laughter. He makes me laugh so hard. And I have been going deeper in my Catholic faith. So I pray more instead of picking fights or holding grudges

Chemistry, attraction and good sex can fix a lot!

16 years, 5 kids.
Attribute to extremely good physical chemistry. Good sex can be balm on a lot of issues. Understanding divorce is not an option. Lots of laughter. He makes me laugh so hard. And I have been going deeper in my Catholic faith. So I pray more instead of picking fights or holding grudges

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex would never work on himself to fix problems. Like he would be late to things over 300 times especially with the kids during a marriage. It got old. People would write us nastygrams. He would never put his clothes in a hamper despite trying five different ways to get him to do this. I gave him grace and didn't divorce because of this - instead over his addiction and infidelity - but honestly do not miss it. When people say they give grace to their spouse do they mean allowing problems to go on and on without ever correcting? Women constantly overspending, partying, or not cleaning the house. Men constantly getting laid off, late, or drunk? Where do you draw the line between grace and enabling?

Yeah I would have let those things go and not nagged. My husband is perpetually late. If it’s important me, like church, I drive separately to ensure I get there in time. He also never uses a hamper. It is what it is. His other qualities more than make up for those things. He is an adult. It’s not for me to “correct” him. It’s about respect and knowing your own lane.

I wouldn’t stay with a cheater, at least I don’t think I would.

Church is a bizarre one to mention as well. No one else cares if you are late except you. It affects no one else unless you are participating as a leader in the activity.

Of course it does. It's very disruptive.

I meant no one has to pay more money, change their plans, help out in your place, fix a problem. I guess if your church is really small maybe, but people are early or late or sick or have to use the bathroom and go in and out or just attend sporadically all the time. Nothing changes for others who are worshipping or leading.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex would never work on himself to fix problems. Like he would be late to things over 300 times especially with the kids during a marriage. It got old. People would write us nastygrams. He would never put his clothes in a hamper despite trying five different ways to get him to do this. I gave him grace and didn't divorce because of this - instead over his addiction and infidelity - but honestly do not miss it. When people say they give grace to their spouse do they mean allowing problems to go on and on without ever correcting? Women constantly overspending, partying, or not cleaning the house. Men constantly getting laid off, late, or drunk? Where do you draw the line between grace and enabling?

Yeah I would have let those things go and not nagged. My husband is perpetually late. If it’s important me, like church, I drive separately to ensure I get there in time. He also never uses a hamper. It is what it is. His other qualities more than make up for those things. He is an adult. It’s not for me to “correct” him. It’s about respect and knowing your own lane.

I wouldn’t stay with a cheater, at least I don’t think I would.

Church is a bizarre one to mention as well. No one else cares if you are late except you. It affects no one else unless you are participating as a leader in the activity.

Of course it does. It's very disruptive.

Anonymous wrote:The key is to marry someone who comes from parents who are also happily married. Someone who has good values, understands how to handle money, and is not quick to anger.

This is the key. Personally, I really like/love my husband. I miss him during the day and am always happy to see him in the evening again. This is true after almost 25 years of marriage.

When we were dating she had me read a book called His Needs/Her Needs. Some of the concepts are a little dated but it created a discussion about what each of us needs from the other in order to be happy and how resentment builds when needs aren’t met over long periods.

She needed: 1. Daily, undistracted conversation, 2. Owning half of the household workload, 3. Fiscal responsibility (earning a lot more than I spend), 4. Being a good and engaged parent, 5. Staying in good shape, 6. Good, regular sex

I needed:
1. For her to stay in shape/remain reasonably attractive and 2. Regular sex

Ultimately, those are the minimum things that we each needed and we’ve far exceeded those for each other through the years. Happily married 22 years.

Also, why would you go to church apparently to "work on being closer to God" and not work on being closer to your spouse by doing things that would please them if they point out things are causing problems? Usually, God in religions accepts you but doesn't just expect you to be the same from week to week. Just because we are an adult, doesn't mean we never need correction. You don't go immediately from being a child to being a fully functioning adult especially as life changes. In fact, it's one of the primary reasons for being religious and going to church.

What I've noticed from people who are divorced is that either the person is lying to them for years and they are in denial till they aren't, or they are the person lying or mentally ill in some way and have either mentally or physically left the marriage, or the person is putting up with abuse for years till they start having health and safety issues themselves or they are selfish and think they deserve more. This whole idea that you go into marriage somehow completely ready and perfect as a marriage partner is flawed unless you are good at compartmentalizing. Some of the younger generations don't even know how to live alone and adult much less do that with a partner or with children. I assume most good marriages at least have a mix of acceptance, compromise, and hard work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex would never work on himself to fix problems. Like he would be late to things over 300 times especially with the kids during a marriage. It got old. People would write us nastygrams. He would never put his clothes in a hamper despite trying five different ways to get him to do this. I gave him grace and didn't divorce because of this - instead over his addiction and infidelity - but honestly do not miss it. When people say they give grace to their spouse do they mean allowing problems to go on and on without ever correcting? Women constantly overspending, partying, or not cleaning the house. Men constantly getting laid off, late, or drunk? Where do you draw the line between grace and enabling?

Yeah I would have let those things go and not nagged. My husband is perpetually late. If it’s important me, like church, I drive separately to ensure I get there in time. He also never uses a hamper. It is what it is. His other qualities more than make up for those things. He is an adult. It’s not for me to “correct” him. It’s about respect and knowing your own lane.

I wouldn’t stay with a cheater, at least I don’t think I would.

I think this is why I don't know that I want to ever marry again. Just accepting people as is and dealing with their problems and taking over for things I want unless it's "the most important thing to me" is bizarre. It it's an issue to me, I want to talk about it and find a win win, not just accept. Church is a bizarre one to mention as well. No one else cares if you are late except you. It affects no one else unless you are participating as a leader in the activity. Being late for the plane, the baseball game, school. Those things other people care about and affect money and other's time. I wouldn't really want to handle all the finances or drop offs or house cleaning or money making just because my spouse is an adult and I don't correct.

This decade has been happier since ILs left and kids grew up and became independent. Empty nesting is amazing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My culture and religion. The people who surround me. Divorce, DV and cheating is very rare in my circle.

Mostly college STEM educated people - both men and women. High earners.

South Asian, right?

Lots of DV in the South Asian community.

Not true. DV is rare in educated and well off families, at least in my experience. To be fair, no drinking, no drugs, no debt makes it easy.

I'm not sure I know anyone happily married after 16 years. My parents are still married after 40 years, but I don't know if they've ever been happy. I'm not privy to what goes on inside other people's marriages, either. We all have challenges we don't share.