Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The strongest kids are the ones who buck the hierarchy and look out for the vulnerable. The weakest are afraid to disrupt the status quo.

I am concerned that the "strong Mom" who says her husband tells her boys need hierarchy may not be uncommon.
As the parent of girls, whom I guess need protecting because of my feminist slant (eye roll), I would hope I have raised my kids to steer far, far away from these kids

Any hints on how to do that other than to raise them to respect themselves and be kind to others?

Fellow girl mom here - the boys like PP describes aren't maybe so bad because if they hold other kids in semi-open disdain, they are easy to spot. The problem gets to be (like Brock Turner mentioned above) when people are in a vulnerable position around these boys/men. AFAIK the only solution to that is to steer far away and travel in packs in vulnerable situations.

The guys who are even more scary are the ones who are able to conceal the disdain - the type people call narcissists these days, though I think that word is horrifically overused.

What would you call it - what are the signs? I am not sure what you mean but I think you are on to something.

You are right, the guys that the strong Mom is raising are typically obvious a$$hats, and I agree with traveling in groups for reasons related to vulnerability. I don't know how much of an overlap there are between the bro dude kids of Strong Mom and the rapists, I am sure there is some, but it's not complete

PP here. I typically reserve the word narcissist for actual Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'd say someone who has more narcissist traits than typical (everyone has some) but doesn't have full blown NPD just has "narcissist traits." There's a ton of inventories of those traits out there - but the basic idea is someone who shows in any way that they care about themselves more than they care about hurting others. Do we all do it sometimes? I think so. But the people you want to be around will apologize and try to make it right. The people you don't want to apologize will gaslight, diminish, and pass blame when they're caught not caring about other people. The scary ones will do that well.

These people, if they don't hold those traits in check, can easily become emotionally abusive.

There are two separate conversations happening here. One for guys, one for girls.

I’m the mom of a sometimes-mean girl. I encourage every kind of kindness.

She has gotten less thoughtful and mature through middle school. More worried about status, more insecure in how she feels among friends (though she has a strong group).

It’s the insecurity that will encourage mean behavior 99.9% of the time. Girls, just be secure in yourself. You’re adorable and there’s room for everyone to be adorable too. Relax.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oldest 2 boys are probably mean. They exclude other boys and hold weak ones in semi-open disdain. We didn’t teach them to be this way but it came to them naturally.

They’re not cruel, though. The funny thing is they’re rewarded for their behavior by the other boys and girls.

And you know you have to rein it in, instead of writing that out as if you were proud of them?

Disagree. They’re not cruel and it helps them socially. They were raised to be strong, so not sure why I’d try to teach them something different after all these years.

I am proud of their strength, and I should be. DH and I made choices to raise good men, and we got what we wanted.

How does it show strength when they are disdainful of weaker children??? I see plenty of strong young men around my children's school and they have nothing to prove to anyone, no need to show off by bullying others. I see kids like your sons and they don't look strong, they look ridiculous. And if you're not sure why you'd teach your sons to be something other than "mean" (your words, in your first post), then you're probably beyond help.

Good question. As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy. Our two oldest exclude those who try to buck it. I should have been more clear.

This forum has a feminine take on protecting the weak. However, because my boys are strong, I don’t always agree with that reflex. Moms I know with strong sons think the way I do.

Do you mean physically strong? Tall and big? Socially adept? Good looking? I sincerely don’t even know what in the actual hell you are talking about.

“As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy” made me lol though. Glad your husband is around to explain these things.

I have

This is what MAGA parenting is producing. yikes

The real tell is when they be start criticizing “empathy” as if it’s a bad thing. That’s how I know that they are in the cult. Empathy is a basic human value and anyone claiming that it makes people “weak” are truly disturbed and twisted human beings.

Unlimited empathy leads to supporting wallowing and worse behavior. We teach our kids to be sympathetic but not believe every sob story.

Today, the “empathy” crowd often lacks the ability to say when it goes too far.

May you receive that same cold skepticism and disdain from family, friends, and caregivers whenever you’re hurting and in need of understanding. You can decide if that’s a blessing or a curse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oldest 2 boys are probably mean. They exclude other boys and hold weak ones in semi-open disdain. We didn’t teach them to be this way but it came to them naturally.

They’re not cruel, though. The funny thing is they’re rewarded for their behavior by the other boys and girls.

And you know you have to rein it in, instead of writing that out as if you were proud of them?

Disagree. They’re not cruel and it helps them socially. They were raised to be strong, so not sure why I’d try to teach them something different after all these years.

I am proud of their strength, and I should be. DH and I made choices to raise good men, and we got what we wanted.

How does it show strength when they are disdainful of weaker children??? I see plenty of strong young men around my children's school and they have nothing to prove to anyone, no need to show off by bullying others. I see kids like your sons and they don't look strong, they look ridiculous. And if you're not sure why you'd teach your sons to be something other than "mean" (your words, in your first post), then you're probably beyond help.

Good question. As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy. Our two oldest exclude those who try to buck it. I should have been more clear.

This forum has a feminine take on protecting the weak. However, because my boys are strong, I don’t always agree with that reflex. Moms I know with strong sons think the way I do.

Do you mean physically strong? Tall and big? Socially adept? Good looking? I sincerely don’t even know what in the actual hell you are talking about.

“As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy” made me lol though. Glad your husband is around to explain these things.

I have

This is what MAGA parenting is producing. yikes

The real tell is when they be start criticizing “empathy” as if it’s a bad thing. That’s how I know that they are in the cult. Empathy is a basic human value and anyone claiming that it makes people “weak” are truly disturbed and twisted human beings.

Unlimited empathy leads to supporting wallowing and worse behavior. We teach our kids to be sympathetic but not believe every sob story.

Today, the “empathy” crowd often lacks the ability to say when it goes too far.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oldest 2 boys are probably mean. They exclude other boys and hold weak ones in semi-open disdain. We didn’t teach them to be this way but it came to them naturally.

They’re not cruel, though. The funny thing is they’re rewarded for their behavior by the other boys and girls.

And you know you have to rein it in, instead of writing that out as if you were proud of them?

Disagree. They’re not cruel and it helps them socially. They were raised to be strong, so not sure why I’d try to teach them something different after all these years.

I am proud of their strength, and I should be. DH and I made choices to raise good men, and we got what we wanted.

How does it show strength when they are disdainful of weaker children??? I see plenty of strong young men around my children's school and they have nothing to prove to anyone, no need to show off by bullying others. I see kids like your sons and they don't look strong, they look ridiculous. And if you're not sure why you'd teach your sons to be something other than "mean" (your words, in your first post), then you're probably beyond help.

Good question. As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy. Our two oldest exclude those who try to buck it. I should have been more clear.

This forum has a feminine take on protecting the weak. However, because my boys are strong, I don’t always agree with that reflex. Moms I know with strong sons think the way I do.

Do you mean physically strong? Tall and big? Socially adept? Good looking? I sincerely don’t even know what in the actual hell you are talking about.

“As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy” made me lol though. Glad your husband is around to explain these things.

I have

This is what MAGA parenting is producing. yikes

The real tell is when they be start criticizing “empathy” as if it’s a bad thing. That’s how I know that they are in the cult. Empathy is a basic human value and anyone claiming that it makes people “weak” are truly disturbed and twisted human beings.

Anonymous wrote:Parenting a “popular” middle school girl has been incredibly humbling. I always thought mean girl behavior was mostly the parents fault but I swear we taught, modeled, encouraged kindness her whole life. And it’s not showing. I’m at my wits end about it but I can’t force her to be kind. I do try a lot but I know she can exclude others, be shallow, cliquey and hoard social power. I wish there was a magic fix but I haven’t found it.

There are plenty of popular girls who are not mean. The mean ones in the group are the minority and give the whole group a bad name. There’s plenty you can do and you’re pathetic to claim you can’t.

Anonymous wrote:This is a weird question and makes you sound like some jealous bitter mom of unpopular kids that you perceive others have wronged or been mean to.

Most kids are nice, most of the time. All are mean some of the time.

I agree with this.

This is a weird question and makes you sound like some jealous bitter mom of unpopular kids that you perceive others have wronged or been mean to.

Most kids are nice, most of the time. All are mean some of the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The strongest kids are the ones who buck the hierarchy and look out for the vulnerable. The weakest are afraid to disrupt the status quo.

I am concerned that the "strong Mom" who says her husband tells her boys need hierarchy may not be uncommon.
As the parent of girls, whom I guess need protecting because of my feminist slant (eye roll), I would hope I have raised my kids to steer far, far away from these kids

Any hints on how to do that other than to raise them to respect themselves and be kind to others?

Fellow girl mom here - the boys like PP describes aren't maybe so bad because if they hold other kids in semi-open disdain, they are easy to spot. The problem gets to be (like Brock Turner mentioned above) when people are in a vulnerable position around these boys/men. AFAIK the only solution to that is to steer far away and travel in packs in vulnerable situations.

The guys who are even more scary are the ones who are able to conceal the disdain - the type people call narcissists these days, though I think that word is horrifically overused.

What would you call it - what are the signs? I am not sure what you mean but I think you are on to something.

You are right, the guys that the strong Mom is raising are typically obvious a$$hats, and I agree with traveling in groups for reasons related to vulnerability. I don't know how much of an overlap there are between the bro dude kids of Strong Mom and the rapists, I am sure there is some, but it's not complete

Parenting a “popular” middle school girl has been incredibly humbling. I always thought mean girl behavior was mostly the parents fault but I swear we taught, modeled, encouraged kindness her whole life. And it’s not showing. I’m at my wits end about it but I can’t force her to be kind. I do try a lot but I know she can exclude others, be shallow, cliquey and hoard social power. I wish there was a magic fix but I haven’t found it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The strongest kids are the ones who buck the hierarchy and look out for the vulnerable. The weakest are afraid to disrupt the status quo.

I am concerned that the "strong Mom" who says her husband tells her boys need hierarchy may not be uncommon.
As the parent of girls, whom I guess need protecting because of my feminist slant (eye roll), I would hope I have raised my kids to steer far, far away from these kids

Any hints on how to do that other than to raise them to respect themselves and be kind to others?

Fellow girl mom here - the boys like PP describes aren't maybe so bad because if they hold other kids in semi-open disdain, they are easy to spot. The problem gets to be (like Brock Turner mentioned above) when people are in a vulnerable position around these boys/men. AFAIK the only solution to that is to steer far away and travel in packs in vulnerable situations.

The guys who are even more scary are the ones who are able to conceal the disdain - the type people call narcissists these days, though I think that word is horrifically overused.

PP here. Your daughters will have no problem avoiding boys like mine because they are openly MAGA. You may be surprised that your daughter may change her behavior to win their favor because they are quite popular with the girls. It probably won’t surprise anyone that they are lax bros.

I was talking with a mom of a high-achieving girl (headed to an high Ivy purely on academics), who confessed her daughter hides her views so as to not offend similar boys at a different school. Thought it was interesting because I was a huge Democrat before meeting DH. It’s not always bad to change the way you see politics.

Also, it seems like there is an obsession with empathy. Too much empathy isn’t good either.

So, you met DH and decided “screw all of the humanitarian values I formerly held. Let’s do a complete 180, go full social Darwin and raise a couple of Andrew Tates”.

I’m gonna go ahead and guess that you were not, in fact, a huge Democrat.

Proudly voted for John Kerry in 2004. Thought W was a war criminal. Still think he’s an idiot. Don’t love Trump either but Harris was nothing but fake credentials.

That’s not how it worked. I had and have my same values. DH simply pointed out that many of those policies don’t work. For instance, I used to think we should spend more on schools for kids. DH would point out that funding has increased a lot since before we were born and kids are not getting smarter. It was like this on all sorts of topics where my values and policy effectiveness didn’t always mesh.

It’s sad you think boys like mine are “Andrew Tate.” There are lots of types of men other than Tate and Democratic husbands. My boys will make great husbands one day just like their father.

Ooooh so you're just racist.

My daughter’s ex’s mom told me that her son was not a good person and she loved my daughter but he was just too immature and selfish and made a terrible boyfriend. I was kinda shocked but it definitely proved right. Took my daughter too long to let go and she got pretty mean herself with us in defiance. I appreciated her honesty. The kid is even worse now and I know the parents tried their best.

I feel like this thread has strayed, but I will bring it back: My daughter is often mean. She's autistic, and we're working on it. But I realize that she's often mean.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oldest 2 boys are probably mean. They exclude other boys and hold weak ones in semi-open disdain. We didn’t teach them to be this way but it came to them naturally.

They’re not cruel, though. The funny thing is they’re rewarded for their behavior by the other boys and girls.

And you know you have to rein it in, instead of writing that out as if you were proud of them?

Disagree. They’re not cruel and it helps them socially. They were raised to be strong, so not sure why I’d try to teach them something different after all these years.

I am proud of their strength, and I should be. DH and I made choices to raise good men, and we got what we wanted.

How does it show strength when they are disdainful of weaker children??? I see plenty of strong young men around my children's school and they have nothing to prove to anyone, no need to show off by bullying others. I see kids like your sons and they don't look strong, they look ridiculous. And if you're not sure why you'd teach your sons to be something other than "mean" (your words, in your first post), then you're probably beyond help.

Good question. As DH explains it, boys need hierarchy. Our two oldest exclude those who try to buck it. I should have been more clear.

This forum has a feminine take on protecting the weak. However, because my boys are strong, I don’t always agree with that reflex. Moms I know with strong sons think the way I do.

You and your “strong” sons are repulsive.

Yah this is gross. My son is handsome, tall, great athlete so I’m really on top his behavior to be the kind, inclusive one. He’s friends with all the circles of kids, and he gets along with a lot of different personalities and appreciates his friends for the differences. I’m proud of him for not chasing social status or seeing people through this hierarchy. It’s an ugly way to live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The strongest kids are the ones who buck the hierarchy and look out for the vulnerable. The weakest are afraid to disrupt the status quo.

I am concerned that the "strong Mom" who says her husband tells her boys need hierarchy may not be uncommon.
As the parent of girls, whom I guess need protecting because of my feminist slant (eye roll), I would hope I have raised my kids to steer far, far away from these kids

Any hints on how to do that other than to raise them to respect themselves and be kind to others?

Fellow girl mom here - the boys like PP describes aren't maybe so bad because if they hold other kids in semi-open disdain, they are easy to spot. The problem gets to be (like Brock Turner mentioned above) when people are in a vulnerable position around these boys/men. AFAIK the only solution to that is to steer far away and travel in packs in vulnerable situations.

The guys who are even more scary are the ones who are able to conceal the disdain - the type people call narcissists these days, though I think that word is horrifically overused.

PP here. Your daughters will have no problem avoiding boys like mine because they are openly MAGA. You may be surprised that your daughter may change her behavior to win their favor because they are quite popular with the girls. It probably won’t surprise anyone that they are lax bros.

I was talking with a mom of a high-achieving girl (headed to an high Ivy purely on academics), who confessed her daughter hides her views so as to not offend similar boys at a different school. Thought it was interesting because I was a huge Democrat before meeting DH. It’s not always bad to change the way you see politics.

Also, it seems like there is an obsession with empathy. Too much empathy isn’t good either.

So, you met DH and decided “screw all of the humanitarian values I formerly held. Let’s do a complete 180, go full social Darwin and raise a couple of Andrew Tates”.

I’m gonna go ahead and guess that you were not, in fact, a huge Democrat.

Proudly voted for John Kerry in 2004. Thought W was a war criminal. Still think he’s an idiot. Don’t love Trump either but Harris was nothing but fake credentials.

That’s not how it worked. I had and have my same values. DH simply pointed out that many of those policies don’t work. For instance, I used to think we should spend more on schools for kids. DH would point out that funding has increased a lot since before we were born and kids are not getting smarter. It was like this on all sorts of topics where my values and policy effectiveness didn’t always mesh.

It’s sad you think boys like mine are “Andrew Tate.” There are lots of types of men other than Tate and Democratic husbands. My boys will make great husbands one day just like their father.

Lady, you are a shite parent. Your boys will be shite husbands. We don't need any more toxic males running around but you had to produce multiple. God help the poor girls they hurt. And they will.

No...no...STFU. You failed. Own it. Your hubris and pride in your sicko DH and sicko kids is gross.