Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

They charge a lot of money because it costs a lot of money to breed healthy animals. High quality food, veterinary care, genetic testing, the list goes on – it's very expensive.

What breed are you looking for? Have you considered a breed specific rescue group?

Most people don't feed high quality food, dogs are only pregnant two months so maybe 1-2 vet appointments... they aren't genetic testing every dog. Be real.

Good breeders are in fact doing all of this and more.

I am part of this world and know this to be true.

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It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

Probably. The fact that you had the “best dog ever“ does not mean that there wasn’t any suffering involved.

PP. Huh? What suffering? It was a puppy with AKC papers from a lady who lived on 5 acres and had a handful of dogs. We went into her home, met the mother and other dogs. Should I have assumed mistreatment from this scenario? And to my family, yes, he was the “best dog ever’. Very odd you put my personal opinion in quotes as if to question it.

That sounds good to me.. that is what we did too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

They charge a lot of money because it costs a lot of money to breed healthy animals. High quality food, veterinary care, genetic testing, the list goes on – it's very expensive.

What breed are you looking for? Have you considered a breed specific rescue group?

Most people don't feed high quality food, dogs are only pregnant two months so maybe 1-2 vet appointments... they aren't genetic testing every dog. Be real.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

No, a back yard breeder wouldn't have papers. If your breeder had papers, the dogs would have had their lineages checked (to avoid inbreeding). Otherwise the kennel club wouldn't have issued the papers.

Incorrect. Having “papers“ just means that the parent dogs have papers indicating that they are purebreds. It doesn’t really indicate anything else. It doesn’t guarantee health testing, it doesn’t guarantee that the dogs were treated properly, it doesn’t guarantee that the animals are healthy, it really doesn’t guarantee much of anything other than the breed of the dogs.

My grandmother was a hobby breeder but got all her puppies AKC registered and the club did the lineages and cleared the breeding beforehand. She had one where they switched the fathers shortly before because they decided they wanted a more diverse match.

Whether or not that's true that has no bearing on what "AKC papers" means today. It does not mean anything about testing or health.

You need testing or proof if the parents are not AKC registered.

AKC registered means registered and nothing more. It doesn't mean anything about testing or health. What part of that do you not get?

Health testing is good practice regardless. It has nothing to do with AKC papers.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

Probably. The fact that you had the “best dog ever“ does not mean that there wasn’t any suffering involved.

PP. Huh? What suffering? It was a puppy with AKC papers from a lady who lived on 5 acres and had a handful of dogs. We went into her home, met the mother and other dogs. Should I have assumed mistreatment from this scenario? And to my family, yes, he was the “best dog ever’. Very odd you put my personal opinion in quotes as if to question it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

No, a back yard breeder wouldn't have papers. If your breeder had papers, the dogs would have had their lineages checked (to avoid inbreeding). Otherwise the kennel club wouldn't have issued the papers.

Incorrect. Having “papers“ just means that the parent dogs have papers indicating that they are purebreds. It doesn’t really indicate anything else. It doesn’t guarantee health testing, it doesn’t guarantee that the dogs were treated properly, it doesn’t guarantee that the animals are healthy, it really doesn’t guarantee much of anything other than the breed of the dogs.

My grandmother was a hobby breeder but got all her puppies AKC registered and the club did the lineages and cleared the breeding beforehand. She had one where they switched the fathers shortly before because they decided they wanted a more diverse match.

Whether or not that's true that has no bearing on what "AKC papers" means today. It does not mean anything about testing or health.

You need testing or proof if the parents are not AKC registered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

They get them for free and resell them. That is the only difference. Don't kid yourself to think rescues aren't reselling dogs.

You are really failing to understand all of this. DP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

Ethical breeders and puppy mills sell products that look very similar, but are not the same quality. You can get a burger at a fast food restaurant or a fine steakhouse, but the organic grass fed Kobe beef is going to cost more than the 80/20 ground beef with fillers, even if they’re both burgers. Which is your priority, the affordable burger or the highest quality burger?

Not sure this is a great analogy but I have to assume someone charging 3 to 5k for a dog is doing it to make some money, no? You indicated above (I think, someone did) that it should be solely a ‘labor of love’, no?

Not pp, but the “labor of love” is about advancement of the breed. And if you are taking proper care of your animals, and getting all of the necessary vet testing, etc., it can be very expensive. So charging that much for a dog often does make sense, with an ethical breeder. The problem is that the puppy mills may charge that much as well. So price is really not indicative of much of anything. Except that you’re not going to get a champion line purebred GSD for $500.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

Probably. The fact that you had the “best dog ever“ does not mean that there wasn’t any suffering involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Dp. What is meant by ‘backyard breeding’? We got our last purebred dog (who passed recently) from a breeder who raised dogs at her home. He had papers but not any genetic tests that I recall. Best dog ever. Is that a backyard breeder?

No, a back yard breeder wouldn't have papers. If your breeder had papers, the dogs would have had their lineages checked (to avoid inbreeding). Otherwise the kennel club wouldn't have issued the papers.

Incorrect. Having “papers“ just means that the parent dogs have papers indicating that they are purebreds. It doesn’t really indicate anything else. It doesn’t guarantee health testing, it doesn’t guarantee that the dogs were treated properly, it doesn’t guarantee that the animals are healthy, it really doesn’t guarantee much of anything other than the breed of the dogs.

My grandmother was a hobby breeder but got all her puppies AKC registered and the club did the lineages and cleared the breeding beforehand. She had one where they switched the fathers shortly before because they decided they wanted a more diverse match.

Whether or not that's true that has no bearing on what "AKC papers" means today. It does not mean anything about testing or health.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Rescues are businesses and reselling dogs. That's how they make their money.

Rescues are 501(c)(3) corporations and are not operating for profit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

They get them for free and resell them. That is the only difference. Don't kid yourself to think rescues aren't reselling dogs.

You are really failing to understand all of this. DP.

No, I'm not. Both are methods of selling dogs.

You aren’t very smart are you? If I am a jewel thief and I sell what I’ve stolen, that is a method of selling jewelry. If I work at Tiffany and Company? That is a method of selling jewelry. Not the same thing—very different ethical implications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

They get them for free and resell them. That is the only difference. Don't kid yourself to think rescues aren't reselling dogs.

You are really failing to understand all of this. DP.

No, I'm not. Both are methods of selling dogs.

Sure
Question is - who is benefiting from the proceedings. Puppy mills or rescues? It's a big difference for me - who's going to profit from my hard-earned $$$. YMMV obviously

Some of the rescues buy the dogs from puppy mills at auctions.

I always have to lol when people say their dog was “rescued from a puppy mill” like they’re imagining a commando raid or something but actually it’s just a dog auction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Skipped...

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Lucky dog doesn't pay anyone to breed dogs on their backyard, they just take puppies surrendered to local SC shelter... They also don't encourage future breeding (all dogs are either neutered before adoption have iron-clad clause for future neutering)

But buying from by provides monetary incentives to said breeders to keep going...
So sad that you can't see that difference

You don’t have to pay anyone. Dealing with their most unpleasant and inconvenient consequence for free is a clear disincentive for SC to eliminate backyard breeding. Why should anyone down there clean up the problem (which can clearly be solved, as in the northeast) when rescues will deal with all the puppies?

Rescues are businesses and reselling dogs. That's how they make their money.