Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

My 10 year old will only read graphic novels because he likes lot of pictures.

Besides above, he also reads almanacs, kids science and engineering books with lots of vivid pictures. Lots of higher level vocab, technical stuff, and content knowledge. Novels no but content knowledge about science, engineering, animals, whatever he is good.

PP here again. We are applying to private school, and I just found out today that surprisingly, the reading test they administered as part of the admission process, he scored at an 8th grade level.

So let your kids read what they enjoy. No need to police this.

Anonymous wrote:All of the Alan Gratz and Jennifer Nielsen historic fiction
Eragon series
Lord of the Rings trilogy + the Hobbit
Redwall series
Swiss Family Robinson
Mixed up Files of Mrs. Basil E Frankweiler
Holes series
Maze Runner series
Number the Stars
Diary of Anne Frank
Fablehaven Series
Gregor the Underlander series

Good list plus Hunger Games in 5th grade.

My 4th grader likes Lord of the Rings, Mysterious Benedict Society, Narnia, Swallows and Amazons series. For higher reading level/literary quality but still child appropriate content I like to go back a generation or two and have him read older books, although you do have to watch out for racism/sexism (Swallows and Amazons has a lot more of this than I remembered 😬).

He also likes Keeper of the Lost Cities, Pendragon, Eragon, and Artemis Fowl but I don't consider those high quality books. I'll join the rest of you in the judgy snob corner. 😆

Anonymous wrote:Yikes. Are you all talking about reading for fun? I can’t imagine policing that any more than telling my kid they are wasting their time with fun art projects instead of copying the Mona Lisa!

I guess if I was worried about my kids reading levels I might assign them reading like tutoring but I would really hate to do that because I suspect it would make them read way less for fun. My youngest reads only sports related books but he will read way above grade level if it’s a biography of Lionel Messi. I just can’t imagine making this something to fight about!

Because there are some crazies on this board if you haven’t noticed

I loved the Francis Hodgson Burnett books at that age. Little princess and secret garden.

Yikes. Are you all talking about reading for fun? I can’t imagine policing that any more than telling my kid they are wasting their time with fun art projects instead of copying the Mona Lisa!

I guess if I was worried about my kids reading levels I might assign them reading like tutoring but I would really hate to do that because I suspect it would make them read way less for fun. My youngest reads only sports related books but he will read way above grade level if it’s a biography of Lionel Messi. I just can’t imagine making this something to fight about!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

+1 we are also a no graphic novel family. I always encourage good quality literature. I don’t ban graphic novels, but have never suggested them to my kids. My oldest was exposed to his first graphic novel in middle school AAP - shockingly. He thought it was a joke. The regular classes were also doing it. I guess it was easier for the teacher. Both of my kids are now strong students, AAP and honors/AP kids.

Big deal

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

No one is arguing NOT to expose them to other literature besides graphic novels. I am challenging this idea that graphic novels are the equivalent of junk food. They are not. There are many many benefits for young readers to be encouraged to read LOTS of things, including graphic novels. Many posters here seem to think that forbidding them, or shaming their child for enjoying a graphic novel, is the right way to encourage them to become a well read person. I profoundly disagree. And I think it's ok if you kid mostly wants to read graphic novels when they are in elementary school.

I forgot to add The Witch of Blackbird Pond — such a good book and they will remember it when they study the colonial period in America.

A posted up thread gave some great suggestions.
I wanted to add that I was once stuck on a plane with a dead laptop and read the Tuesday in the Castle series and was really impressed with how well written they were.

My oldest also read a bunch of the classics, all of which are very well written:
Five children and it
Little women and the sequels
Anne of green gables
The original Mary poppins books
The original paddington books
Lord of the rings series
Narnia series
The Princess Bride

When I was younger I did a thing with my kids where if they read five real books I would take them to Barnes noble and they could pick out anything they wanted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

NP. You’re bad at critical thinking.

Can you please explain?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books that might include some of what you’re looking for, but the age is approximate and so is estimation of literary merit (or lack thereof):

From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler
The Westing Game
A Wrinkle in Time
Dark is Rising series
Roald Dahl
Holes by Louis Sachar
Island of the Blue Dolphins
How to Eat Fried Worms
Fairest by Gail Carson Levine
Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing
Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
The Phantom Tollbooth
The Wolves of Willoughby Chase
Hidden Talents by David Lubar
Narnia Series (starting with The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe)
Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH
Green Knowe series
The Secret Garden

Where the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein (quirky poetry)

The Newberry Award books tend to be really good. Here’s a list from Wikipedia (under Recipients - scroll down below the pictures)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbery_Medal

Love a lot of this list but I think some of them would be really heavy for a 4th grader. Dark is Rising has a pretty terrible view of the world ("might makes right and just be glad the relatively good guys end up being stronger than the really bad guys" basically) even though it's so incredibly well written. Wrinkle in Time, while much more hopeful than Dark is Rising, is great for some 4th graders but left me literally scared hiding behind a couch at that age.

I’m the PP who made the suggestions. I agree that Dark is Rising and Wrinkle in Time are more intense. If that’s a concern, you should be aware that the Green Knowe series is particularly dark and intense. Some of the others may have intense, scary, or sad parts as well. Every family should, of course, make their own choices based on their values and the individual child’s personality. If you have specific concerns, I encourage you to check Common Sense Media for more information.

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/book-reviews/the-dark-is-rising

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/search/wrinkle%20in%20time

Unfortunately, the Green Knowe books aren’t reviewed on Common Sense media, but you can read reviews on Amazon and Goodreads.

My 4th grader’s favorites:

Anything by Roald Dahl
All the Harry Potters
Holes and wayside stories by Louis Sachar
Diary of a wimpy kid
Big Nate
Calvin and Hobbes
Garfield (lol)

He has read and enjoyed some books (the Giver, Hatchet, wrinkle in time) that I consider to have more “literary merit” but does not gravitate toward those when reading for pleasure. He reads a lot at home just for fun and is constantly going in my library account putting books he wants on hold.

He says he wants to read things that are funny. They read more serious books at school (he is reading the Secret Garden now at school) and when he’s at home he just wants to read things that aren’t as heavy and serious. He is in the gifted program, reads at a high level, has a great vocabulary, and loves to read. So why would I step in and say nope you can’t read Garfield as your bedtime story you need to read Robinson Crusoe instead (we are reading Robinson Crusoe together right now but it’s slow going)

My kids never liked graphic novels, but I never restricted what they read (except one time when my 10 yo wanted to read a graphically violent book & I told him to wait until he was older). My younger kid reads longer novels but also likes to re-read favorite picture books. So what?

To answer the OP, when my older kid was in 5th, he read stuff like:

Percy Jackson
Wings of Fire
Hardy Boys
Lord of the Rings
Mysteries in general

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

Not PP, but just pick better graphic novels then. Ones where both the art (because yes, they can be straight art) and literary aspects are high quality. And yes those exist.

The problem isn't genre-specific. Open any Rainbow Fairies book and tell me that's going to really improve kids minds either.

I don’t know if you did this upthread, but can you recommend some of the “better graphics novels where both art and literary aspects are high quality”?

Gareth Hinds does a great job too.

https://garethhinds.com/

But warning, you should scan the book first. These books are classical reads and Shakespeare where you may not think all of the illustrations are for all kids.