Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These parents are insecure and living through their children. They derive what they perceive as status and an identity from their child being successful. The gaggle of parents they sit with. The assured spot at the A meets at their D1 pool over the summer. Bragging rights and prestige. It becomes who they are. The kids their kid hangs around with because they swim "at that level".
They are the parent of a successful swimmer and they rearrange their lives to make this happen. Fill in the blanks with any other sport it's all the same.

So who are they without it?

Add in a large dose of emotional immaturity and lack of self-awareness and a person is screaming at their kid after the meet.

This is unfair and only makes you sound bitter and immature. You are creating some weird imagined story about parents you don’t know, based on your own insecurity. I certainly hope this isn’t what parents think of me. One of my kids is “elite” and has always shown unusual talent in swimming, the kind coaches remark upon regularly. I certainly don’t derive status or identity from it, but it takes a lot of my time (long hours at meets, travel, etc) and I have been so grateful to find friendship and camaraderie in the parents of my swimmer’s friends. They have become some of my closest friends, and we don’t sit together sharing swim times or feeling superior, we are genuine friends - we talk about our lives, our other kids, our struggles, etc - like any friendship. There is also a difficult side to parenting a talented athlete, as they often put immense pressure on themselves, and yeah - sometimes it’s nice to talk to other parents who understand that as well. What would you have me do as a parent? Not support my kid and what he loves? It is only a very small part of our lives in the grand scheme of things - but I will certainly support him and if that upsets you, I don’t know what to tell you.

Anonymous wrote:These parents are insecure and living through their children. They derive what they perceive as status and an identity from their child being successful. The gaggle of parents they sit with. The assured spot at the A meets at their D1 pool over the summer. Bragging rights and prestige. It becomes who they are. The kids their kid hangs around with because they swim "at that level".
They are the parent of a successful swimmer and they rearrange their lives to make this happen. Fill in the blanks with any other sport it's all the same.

So who are they without it?

Add in a large dose of emotional immaturity and lack of self-awareness and a person is screaming at their kid after the meet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Keep telling yourself the bolded, PP. That, in a nutshell, is the thought process of parents who are competitive with/push their young swimmers too hard. "Parents of slow swimmers are delusional, they think their kids could be as fast as mine. A ha ha ha ha!"

In reality, most of us parents of 12 year old B swimmers are proud of their hard work and support them no matter how fast they are. We're not so insecure about our kids' swimming prowess (or lack thereof) that we come on anonymous message boards to bash parents of slower kids.

Ha, you really got me wrong. I am you - the parent of B/BB swimmers. I am super proud of my kids’ hard work but I also live in reality. They gain so much from swimming - appreciation for hard work, the experience of being on a team, balancing school/sport commitments, enjoying their teammates. They are hardworking, decent swimmers but will never be “elite.” They will not swim D1 or make NCSA cuts or go to Olympic Trials. And that is perfectly fine. I have kids that spread a wide enough age range to have really seen this play out across the age groups and although there are certainly exceptions, the very fast swimmers have a natural talent that is hard to put a finger on. Yes, they also have to work hard and it is true that sometimes they will burn out or peak early, but usually they will remain elite if they stay in the sport.

And maybe our team is unusual, but the parents of the truly elite swimmers I know are, by and large, very grounded and philosophical. Most did not push too much too early, and for the most part these highly talented kids have steered the ship. That is often the case with any elite athlete. Do I always know what goes on behind closed doors? Certainly not - but many of these kids and parents are our close friends and I can decidedly say most are not crazy, lol.

I really do think some of this is sour grapes and it’s a shame. My kids are not elite swimmers, but they enjoy swimming and have myriad other talents that will take them far in life. At the end of the day, swimming is a brief season of life, even for the elite ones. I don’t have to vilify the parents of the elite ones or hedge my bets on the ultimate failure of their kids in order to make myself feel better.

You still haven't explained why you're so invested in this narrative that parents of B/BB swimmers are delusional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Keep telling yourself the bolded, PP. That, in a nutshell, is the thought process of parents who are competitive with/push their young swimmers too hard. "Parents of slow swimmers are delusional, they think their kids could be as fast as mine. A ha ha ha ha!"

In reality, most of us parents of 12 year old B swimmers are proud of their hard work and support them no matter how fast they are. We're not so insecure about our kids' swimming prowess (or lack thereof) that we come on anonymous message boards to bash parents of slower kids.

Ha, you really got me wrong. I am you - the parent of B/BB swimmers. I am super proud of my kids’ hard work but I also live in reality. They gain so much from swimming - appreciation for hard work, the experience of being on a team, balancing school/sport commitments, enjoying their teammates. They are hardworking, decent swimmers but will never be “elite.” They will not swim D1 or make NCSA cuts or go to Olympic Trials. And that is perfectly fine. I have kids that spread a wide enough age range to have really seen this play out across the age groups and although there are certainly exceptions, the very fast swimmers have a natural talent that is hard to put a finger on. Yes, they also have to work hard and it is true that sometimes they will burn out or peak early, but usually they will remain elite if they stay in the sport.

And maybe our team is unusual, but the parents of the truly elite swimmers I know are, by and large, very grounded and philosophical. Most did not push too much too early, and for the most part these highly talented kids have steered the ship. That is often the case with any elite athlete. Do I always know what goes on behind closed doors? Certainly not - but many of these kids and parents are our close friends and I can decidedly say most are not crazy, lol.

I really do think some of this is sour grapes and it’s a shame. My kids are not elite swimmers, but they enjoy swimming and have myriad other talents that will take them far in life. At the end of the day, swimming is a brief season of life, even for the elite ones. I don’t have to vilify the parents of the elite ones or hedge my bets on the ultimate failure of their kids in order to make myself feel better.

You still haven't explained why you're so invested in this narrative that parents of B/BB swimmers are delusional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Keep telling yourself the bolded, PP. That, in a nutshell, is the thought process of parents who are competitive with/push their young swimmers too hard. "Parents of slow swimmers are delusional, they think their kids could be as fast as mine. A ha ha ha ha!"

In reality, most of us parents of 12 year old B swimmers are proud of their hard work and support them no matter how fast they are. We're not so insecure about our kids' swimming prowess (or lack thereof) that we come on anonymous message boards to bash parents of slower kids.

Ha, you really got me wrong. I am you - the parent of B/BB swimmers. I am super proud of my kids’ hard work but I also live in reality. They gain so much from swimming - appreciation for hard work, the experience of being on a team, balancing school/sport commitments, enjoying their teammates. They are hardworking, decent swimmers but will never be “elite.” They will not swim D1 or make NCSA cuts or go to Olympic Trials. And that is perfectly fine. I have kids that spread a wide enough age range to have really seen this play out across the age groups and although there are certainly exceptions, the very fast swimmers have a natural talent that is hard to put a finger on. Yes, they also have to work hard and it is true that sometimes they will burn out or peak early, but usually they will remain elite if they stay in the sport.

And maybe our team is unusual, but the parents of the truly elite swimmers I know are, by and large, very grounded and philosophical. Most did not push too much too early, and for the most part these highly talented kids have steered the ship. That is often the case with any elite athlete. Do I always know what goes on behind closed doors? Certainly not - but many of these kids and parents are our close friends and I can decidedly say most are not crazy, lol.

I really do think some of this is sour grapes and it’s a shame. My kids are not elite swimmers, but they enjoy swimming and have myriad other talents that will take them far in life. At the end of the day, swimming is a brief season of life, even for the elite ones. I don’t have to vilify the parents of the elite ones or hedge my bets on the ultimate failure of their kids in order to make myself feel better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no data to back this up (only anecdotal experience) but it seems more common for younger AAA/AAAA swimmers to burn out or plateau and not become elite senior swimmers than it does for B/BB swimmers to become elite.

People need to be realistic. If your 10 year old has B/BB times they are probably going to stay at the BB/A level at best, maybe AA if they really work at it, unless they literally just started swimming. There’s a natural level of talent that’s either there or it’s not. I was a AAA swimmer by my second year of winter swim. It still took hard work to get to the elite level. I don’t see this happening for my own kids even if they went “all in” on swimming and worked very hard. They don’t have the natural talent that I had, and that’s ok.

My kid had like on B time at 10. Seriously. Did not even make an A time until she was 12. When she hit 14 she made five AAA times and by time she was 15 she was making AAAA times. According to DCUM she had zero shots. But she was small and clumsy, but loved to swim. She started puberty (growing six inched in the past year) at 14 and probably still has some height coming. So yea, for all the girls that got their periods at 11, they probably are not going to make huge leaps at 14 and 15, but some kids are late bloomers.

Anonymous wrote:I have no data to back this up (only anecdotal experience) but it seems more common for younger AAA/AAAA swimmers to burn out or plateau and not become elite senior swimmers than it does for B/BB swimmers to become elite.

People need to be realistic. If your 10 year old has B/BB times they are probably going to stay at the BB/A level at best, maybe AA if they really work at it, unless they literally just started swimming. There’s a natural level of talent that’s either there or it’s not. I was a AAA swimmer by my second year of winter swim. It still took hard work to get to the elite level. I don’t see this happening for my own kids even if they went “all in” on swimming and worked very hard. They don’t have the natural talent that I had, and that’s ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Keep telling yourself the bolded, PP. That, in a nutshell, is the thought process of parents who are competitive with/push their young swimmers too hard. "Parents of slow swimmers are delusional, they think their kids could be as fast as mine. A ha ha ha ha!"

In reality, most of us parents of 12 year old B swimmers are proud of their hard work and support them no matter how fast they are. We're not so insecure about our kids' swimming prowess (or lack thereof) that we come on anonymous message boards to bash parents of slower kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Anonymous wrote:I have no data to back this up (only anecdotal experience) but it seems more common for younger AAA/AAAA swimmers to burn out or plateau and not become elite senior swimmers than it does for B/BB swimmers to become elite.

People need to be realistic. If your 10 year old has B/BB times they are probably going to stay at the BB/A level at best, maybe AA if they really work at it, unless they literally just started swimming. There’s a natural level of talent that’s either there or it’s not. I was a AAA swimmer by my second year of winter swim. It still took hard work to get to the elite level. I don’t see this happening for my own kids even if they went “all in” on swimming and worked very hard. They don’t have the natural talent that I had, and that’s ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Torrid Huske might be the best example of a mediocre/good swimmer becoming the ultra elite.

Uh, she had AAA times at 12.

Which was when she hit puberty. She started swimming at 6 and was not a phenom at a young age by any stretch. In fact, she went pretty unnoticed until 11-12.

At least based on what I’ve observed through my own swimmer, it’s not uncommon for there to be changes at the top with the girls when they hit the 11-12 age group. Puberty, kids that didn’t start swimming until they were 9-10 but are now hitting their stride, etc. all make a big difference at that age. What I have not seen a lot of is girls who are still B/BB swimmers at 11-14 all of sudden hitting AAAs when they are 15/16/17.

I think that is a fair statement. But you have a lot of parents on here that think there AAA 10 year old is college material and that the B 10 year old is not. From what I have seen is you have to really wait until puberty and those years are the indicator. Almost all girls will have started puberty by 14.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for this. I keep thinking she’s 10 so she has 8 more years to develop since she’s on younger side. But swim is such a tough sport. Older kids play soccer, volleyball, team sports. It’s very different when it all falls on you.

Be slow. I think when they are young it is so tough to see all the things that they can do better. I always told mine, that is great. It means you can learn (X.Y. or Z) and you will drop time. And you know what? The take it slow approach pays off. My kids are in their teens and dropping time every year. When they were 11-13 and barely keeping up with the superfast kids, and now those kids have plateaued.

So now there are two scenarios - plateaued swimmers will keep having to wake up early and grind it out. They might not have their next drops this year, or next, but have to keep working. That is VERY hard to do mentally. And the longer you can prolong that the better.

Less pushy or coming to the sport a bit later. Keep making time drops as they improve. Less time/chance of plateauing and feeling that frustration. So breaks for vacations are great. Take a day off to do fun stuff or be with friends every once in a while.

Swim is a mental long game and your swimmer will have bad seasons or flat seasons. So they need to love it and want to be there, even if they are not having success.

This story of mediocre swimmers suddenly rising to the top and passing all the elite age group swimmers just doesn’t happen often. It’s exceedingly rare, although it is a common fantasy of the parents of 12 year old B swimmers. In reality, the very best elite swimmers generally were always good. There are some who maybe got a late start in the sport, but had they started swimming at 8, they also would have been good all along. Very rarely do you have a kid who plugs along for years barely getting B times, and suddenly at 15 becomes elite. Sorry, that’s reality.

Now, there are some ups and downs during the puberty years as some kids (especially boys) gain size/strength earlier or later than others. But generally the cream will rise.

Torrid Huske might be the best example of a mediocre/good swimmer becoming the ultra elite.

Uh, she had AAA times at 12.

Which was when she hit puberty. She started swimming at 6 and was not a phenom at a young age by any stretch. In fact, she went pretty unnoticed until 11-12.

At least based on what I’ve observed through my own swimmer, it’s not uncommon for there to be changes at the top with the girls when they hit the 11-12 age group. Puberty, kids that didn’t start swimming until they were 9-10 but are now hitting their stride, etc. all make a big difference at that age. What I have not seen a lot of is girls who are still B/BB swimmers at 11-14 all of sudden hitting AAAs when they are 15/16/17.