In the past, I think a “distanced” relationship with difficult relatives was more readily accepted and easier to pull off. Attend a couple of major family gatherings/yr and “do your duty”(or visit once/yr if you live far away), send Christmas and birthday cards and call on special occasions etc. Easy to use work, finances, distance etc as a polite excuse for not being around more often.

These days- with the availability of cheap 24/7 communication & easy travel- many difficult relatives will get very pushy for more.

I think given the choice between “all in” or “all out”- more people are choosing the latter.

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

This.

Anonymous wrote:This is a weird thread. My father was raised by a single mom after being abandoned by his father, and my mother's parents kicked her out of the house for dating out of her religion (my father). They were both completely alone for most of my childhood. Where are people getting this idea that the past was a utopia?

OP here. I can't speak for others but I was not saying the past was utopia. The opposite-- huge dysfunction in both our families -- abuse, addiction, major trauma (like PTSD from the war or seeing your relatives killed in bombings type of trauma). And I don't think my parents have necessarily great or functional relationships with their siblings -- I have several aunts and uncles I absolutely think if as toxic and I know my parents struggle with them. Bit the are still in contact anyway.

Meanwhile my sister and I have never even really had much conflict and I think we're both okay people -- imperfect, similar in a lot of ways, not destined to be best friends but she's my only sister. And I think if I didn't call her periodically, I'd never speak to her again. Her issues are more with others in our family -- our parents and my older brother especially, she's cut them all off completely. But it's like in cutting them off she's decided not to care for any family relationships at all. She approaches her relationship with me and our mom (the only two people she still talks to) passively. Does not reach out but will respond to calls texts and will see us if we arrange it and provide the time and venue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference in younger generation?

Self-absorption.

If children are raised to believe that their feelings and wishes are paramount to anyone else's then you wind up in situations like yours OP. That includes school and social systems that evolved into the "give everyone an award" mindset. Every kid is special.

That wasn't the case not so long ago. From important things to small things.

This situation has been percolating and was predicted. Read "The Narcissism Epidemic. Living in The Age of Entitlement" by Twenge. You will find she was spot-on.

I’m all for it if being “entitled” means not putting up with abuse, not keeping quiet while others are abused, and not being drained and used at every turn. My uncle was an abuser in every sense of the word, and my mom and her parents enabled it. Guess what? As soon as I was able to be on my own, I kept my distance and he never ever even met my kids.

I’m ENTITLED to not be abused, and so are my kids. If that makes me a selfish, precious snowflake, so be it. Winter is coming.

Not one word of the previous post made me think it meant to tolerate abusers. No one is saying that. It’s the petty people who create major issues where there are none.

But that's the thing. OP said everyone stayed in touch in earlier generations but surely there was abuse and likely even worse than current times. It's just that expectations in putting up with it and maintaining ties have changed.

Anonymous wrote:Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

My grandma, who was born at the turn of the last century (1900s) lived with us. She had 8 kids. She spent her holidays with us and didn't visit anyone else nor did anyone else come to visit us. They all had nuclear family holidays. We all lived within a 2-3 hour drive. She was adored by her extended family, adult children, DILs and grandchildren (she has 5 DILs). There was no bending backwards. The other grandma lived in another country and I honestly don't know with whom she spent her holidays, we never did. Grandpas had passed in the war. There simply was not so much enmeshment and constant contact. My mom demands photos of grandkids all the time, while she sent one to her own mom of the only family picture we took when I was 12. So no, nuclear family life was very common, in fact probably more common than now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families have always had their problems, but now we have social media telling young people that their family members are toxic, everyone’s a narcissist, and encouraging cutting off family members if they have a problem with them (& that people can “choose their own family” of friends). In the past, people were more likely to recognize the imperfections but suck it up, because family was considered very important.

They sucked it up at times because they had no other options. You and some other numbskull keep trying to push the false narrative that families never cut off one another. People often didn't see extended family at all as travel was hard and expensive. Even talking on the phone was expensive.

+1

Growing up, I had an aunt who lived across the country. She came home to visit once a year for a long weekend - bringing her children most of the time but never her DH. I think I met him once. She called her parents maybe once/mo. Travel and long distance phone calls were expensive- there was never any outward indication of “issues” and certainly no one would’ve ever suggested she was estranged or anyone was cut off. It was just “Larla and her family live far away” and that was that.

I didn’t realize until I was an adult that there were serious issues between my grandparents and aunt (over her marriage/choice of spouse) and the distance was all very intentional.

These days- with cheap airfare, social media, 24/7 calls and texting- it really would not work this way. Surely the extended family would demand more, or force the issue. My aunt might have had no choice but to do a real cutoff. But back then, she could do a bare minimum type relationship to keep up appearances using distance as an excuse.

I don’t think this sort of thing was very uncommon.

This X1000. My parent’s families were jerks. They all lived about 3 hours drive away yet we never saw any of them after I was around 7 or 8. My younger siblings have no memory of them. It wasn’t a big deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families have always had their problems, but now we have social media telling young people that their family members are toxic, everyone’s a narcissist, and encouraging cutting off family members if they have a problem with them (& that people can “choose their own family” of friends). In the past, people were more likely to recognize the imperfections but suck it up, because family was considered very important.

They sucked it up at times because they had no other options. You and some other numbskull keep trying to push the false narrative that families never cut off one another. People often didn't see extended family at all as travel was hard and expensive. Even talking on the phone was expensive.

+1

Growing up, I had an aunt who lived across the country. She came home to visit once a year for a long weekend - bringing her children most of the time but never her DH. I think I met him once. She called her parents maybe once/mo. Travel and long distance phone calls were expensive- there was never any outward indication of “issues” and certainly no one would’ve ever suggested she was estranged or anyone was cut off. It was just “Larla and her family live far away” and that was that.

I didn’t realize until I was an adult that there were serious issues between my grandparents and aunt (over her marriage/choice of spouse) and the distance was all very intentional.

These days- with cheap airfare, social media, 24/7 calls and texting- it really would not work this way. Surely the extended family would demand more, or force the issue. My aunt might have had no choice but to do a real cutoff. But back then, she could do a bare minimum type relationship to keep up appearances using distance as an excuse.

I don’t think this sort of thing was very uncommon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference in younger generation?

Self-absorption.

If children are raised to believe that their feelings and wishes are paramount to anyone else's then you wind up in situations like yours OP. That includes school and social systems that evolved into the "give everyone an award" mindset. Every kid is special.

That wasn't the case not so long ago. From important things to small things.

This situation has been percolating and was predicted. Read "The Narcissism Epidemic. Living in The Age of Entitlement" by Twenge. You will find she was spot-on.

I’m all for it if being “entitled” means not putting up with abuse, not keeping quiet while others are abused, and not being drained and used at every turn. My uncle was an abuser in every sense of the word, and my mom and her parents enabled it. Guess what? As soon as I was able to be on my own, I kept my distance and he never ever even met my kids.

I’m ENTITLED to not be abused, and so are my kids. If that makes me a selfish, precious snowflake, so be it. Winter is coming.

Not one word of the previous post made me think it meant to tolerate abusers. No one is saying that. It’s the petty people who create major issues where there are none.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

This is your fantasy and assumption. This was not always true.

+1. There was definitely canceling and estrangement. It might not have been admitted. My dad was estranged from his mother other than birthday cards and a few calls a year. She admitted that to nobody and nobody asked him why we never visited her.

Even now, my sister had an explosive fight with a siblings wife and they never invited her over again. At the rare family function with them, they will not engage with her at all. The family would say there are no estrangements. I could go on. My mother will even lecture and judge about such things without admitting her family and dad's is loaded with this and she has been estranged from her own children as her choice at various times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love this conversation. I think there are a lot of confounding reasons but I hate the positive narrative of estranging from family.

I feel like sometimes people are in a competition for whose trauma is worst. Really enjoyed the book the Power of Being Disliked and its discussion of denying trauma.

Another idea to add would be the role of women as kinkeepers. Women don't have the same ability or desire to continue to be the kinkeepers for both themselves and their husband.

Yes. People and their boundaries are out of control. There was one post where the MIL told the family that her son and dil were having a baby. They told her not to tell everyone and now they are estranged. I mean who cares? What kind of petty small minded people need to control an ordinary announcement.

Some people do have shitty parents, no doubt. But so many young people have zero tolerance and are so rigid that they can’t just let harmless things go. So the MIL told family members about a pregnancy. No harm done so just let it go already.

The people who may have had trouble conceiving and/or have lost pregnancies in the past? WTH can't the MIL respect wishes? It's not her womb. Boundaries only seem out of control to those who have no respect for them

It’s not her womb? That makes no sense. There was no mention of miscarriages. It was just a control thing and zero tolerance. Yeah, get mad, say something, but too many people call these little things breaking boundaries and even trauma. Grow up. I’m sure the couple has done their share of crossing boundaries. No one is perfect.

You sound like one of my mother's sisters. I grew up in a very abusive family and my mother did horrible things to me that my aunts are aware of. They will let you know that they are serious Christians. They think every claim I make about abuse is a lie even though they know about much of it. They believe that you never admit bad things happen, you never talk about them and you move on and act like life is a bowl of cherries. They would never stand up to any evil. They just act like it isn't there. To them there is no reason for me to put any distance from my family. They despise any person who speaks up about abuse. In 2025 they believe people should just keep their mouths shut. They constantly go on about this subject just like you and will ignore any abuse other than outright murder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love this conversation. I think there are a lot of confounding reasons but I hate the positive narrative of estranging from family.

I feel like sometimes people are in a competition for whose trauma is worst. Really enjoyed the book the Power of Being Disliked and its discussion of denying trauma.

Another idea to add would be the role of women as kinkeepers. Women don't have the same ability or desire to continue to be the kinkeepers for both themselves and their husband.

Yes. People and their boundaries are out of control. There was one post where the MIL told the family that her son and dil were having a baby. They told her not to tell everyone and now they are estranged. I mean who cares? What kind of petty small minded people need to control an ordinary announcement.

Some people do have shitty parents, no doubt. But so many young people have zero tolerance and are so rigid that they can’t just let harmless things go. So the MIL told family members about a pregnancy. No harm done so just let it go already.

There isn't some plague of people cutting off family. People just talk about it more. We are more aware of dysfunction and it's cost. You keep right on with your dumb made up stories. This is pure project 2025 sexist aimed bs.

Anonymous wrote:Families have always had their problems, but now we have social media telling young people that their family members are toxic, everyone’s a narcissist, and encouraging cutting off family members if they have a problem with them (& that people can “choose their own family” of friends). In the past, people were more likely to recognize the imperfections but suck it up, because family was considered very important.

They sucked it up at times because they had no other options. You and some other numbskull keep trying to push the false narrative that families never cut off one another. People often didn't see extended family at all as travel was hard and expensive. Even talking on the phone was expensive.

Anonymous wrote:Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

This is your fantasy and assumption. This was not always true.

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference in younger generation?

Self-absorption.

If children are raised to believe that their feelings and wishes are paramount to anyone else's then you wind up in situations like yours OP. That includes school and social systems that evolved into the "give everyone an award" mindset. Every kid is special.

That wasn't the case not so long ago. From important things to small things.

This situation has been percolating and was predicted. Read "The Narcissism Epidemic. Living in The Age of Entitlement" by Twenge. You will find she was spot-on.

I’m all for it if being “entitled” means not putting up with abuse, not keeping quiet while others are abused, and not being drained and used at every turn. My uncle was an abuser in every sense of the word, and my mom and her parents enabled it. Guess what? As soon as I was able to be on my own, I kept my distance and he never ever even met my kids.

I’m ENTITLED to not be abused, and so are my kids. If that makes me a selfish, precious snowflake, so be it. Winter is coming.

Staying in touch - my grandma moved from Maine to DC during the war. She called occasionally and wrote Christmas cards. But the expectations to constantly be in contact weren't there - today with email and social media there is too much contact and then I think that causes breakdowns. I would be able to stay in contact with my family if there weren't expectations to fly frequently to see them, FaceTime them regularly and then they still are abusive and awful.