Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no such thing as an "informal dog run". There may be a group of dog owners regularly breaking the law. That doesn't make it legal. The park is not your personal or collective doggy socialization zone. They do have dog parks for this, if you're interested. That's the appropriate location (or your backyard, but something tells me you'll see the liability issue there, in which case, just apply it to the potential disaster you're creating in a public park and you can answer your own question).

Yes, you should immediately begin following the laws that say you must not only have your dog leashed, but under your control. Do not let your dog approach, sniff, or bark at people without their consent. It's not "being friendly" or "socializing", it's illegal. If you use a retractable leash, STOP. They break, they're dangerous, and they don't allow for sufficient control of your animal.

While you're at it, put your phone away, and make sure your dog's license is visible and their shots are up to date (just in case).

The BS logic of "my dog would never hurt a flea" makes you sound like an idiot, BTW. You know this. I don't. My dog definitely doesn't. And, most importantly, it's not the responsibility of every other person at the public park to learn and know this about you/your dog. It's your job, as a responsible owner, to keep your dog fully under your control at all times.

You've been lucky up until now. Don't push it. You know better, so do better, and tell "all your neighbors" so they can suck less, too.

Have you ever met a golden retriever who bites? I have not. I do know Pitt bulls who have maimed and killed other animals, and various other breeds who have attacked but not with the same lethality as pitts.

Leash laws aren't just for biting. I also don't want your friendly, non-biting golden retriever running up to my 4 year old who is afraid of dogs and scaring the ever living daylight out of her. Which happened once at the "informal dog run" in our neighborhood. The dog was perfectly friendly so I was thankfully not worried about the dog mauling my kid, but it also was obviously untrained with zero recall, as when the owner sauntered up a moment later, the dog fully ignored its owner for several minutes while eating all my kid's goldfish and licking both of us on the hands and face. Were we hurt? No. Was it a totally unwelcome and inappropriate interaction? Yes.

Leash your dog.

Serious question. Why are you on this sub if you dislike animals so much? Do you have a pet goldfish?

I love animals-- I have a dog and a cat.

I don't like being licked by a total strangers dig and I ESPECIALLY don't like my kid being licked by a strangers dog.

I don't let my dog lick other people and she's not allowed to pick our faces because it's unsanitary.

You sound phobic. What kind of dog do you have?

Samoyed. Not wanting a random dog to lick my kid's face is not "phobic."

It’s a bit weird

It depends on the group of dogs. Most are fine and it works but occasionally, you get a dog that shouldn't be in the group. Our dog was bitten on the ear by one. We thought it was a one-time thing, paid the vet bill, and moved on to hear that dog bit a neighbor's dog a few months later. That dog should be removed and kept away from other dogs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no such thing as an "informal dog run". There may be a group of dog owners regularly breaking the law. That doesn't make it legal. The park is not your personal or collective doggy socialization zone. They do have dog parks for this, if you're interested. That's the appropriate location (or your backyard, but something tells me you'll see the liability issue there, in which case, just apply it to the potential disaster you're creating in a public park and you can answer your own question).

Yes, you should immediately begin following the laws that say you must not only have your dog leashed, but under your control. Do not let your dog approach, sniff, or bark at people without their consent. It's not "being friendly" or "socializing", it's illegal. If you use a retractable leash, STOP. They break, they're dangerous, and they don't allow for sufficient control of your animal.

While you're at it, put your phone away, and make sure your dog's license is visible and their shots are up to date (just in case).

The BS logic of "my dog would never hurt a flea" makes you sound like an idiot, BTW. You know this. I don't. My dog definitely doesn't. And, most importantly, it's not the responsibility of every other person at the public park to learn and know this about you/your dog. It's your job, as a responsible owner, to keep your dog fully under your control at all times.

You've been lucky up until now. Don't push it. You know better, so do better, and tell "all your neighbors" so they can suck less, too.

Have you ever met a golden retriever who bites? I have not. I do know Pitt bulls who have maimed and killed other animals, and various other breeds who have attacked but not with the same lethality as pitts.

Leash laws aren't just for biting. I also don't want your friendly, non-biting golden retriever running up to my 4 year old who is afraid of dogs and scaring the ever living daylight out of her. Which happened once at the "informal dog run" in our neighborhood. The dog was perfectly friendly so I was thankfully not worried about the dog mauling my kid, but it also was obviously untrained with zero recall, as when the owner sauntered up a moment later, the dog fully ignored its owner for several minutes while eating all my kid's goldfish and licking both of us on the hands and face. Were we hurt? No. Was it a totally unwelcome and inappropriate interaction? Yes.

Leash your dog.

Serious question. Why are you on this sub if you dislike animals so much? Do you have a pet goldfish?

I love animals-- I have a dog and a cat.

I don't like being licked by a total strangers dig and I ESPECIALLY don't like my kid being licked by a strangers dog.

I don't let my dog lick other people and she's not allowed to pick our faces because it's unsanitary.

You sound phobic. What kind of dog do you have?

Samoyed. Not wanting a random dog to lick my kid's face is not "phobic."

Anonymous wrote:...there's no way to control the actions of other people and other dogs, so the safest thing we can do is control our dogs.

Bingo.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it the so many dog owners fell so entitled to let them go off leash in ares that it's not allowed?

We also have a dog, but follow leash laws, but sometimes it feels like we're the only ones...

Not enough consequences, "make me" mentality, don't know what they don't know about the actual risks/liabilities, ignorant thinking like "my dog is friendly" and probability bias (assuming people with "aggressive breeds" won't let their dogs off leash, failing to consider dog/pack dynamics that could make any dog aggressive).

Stupidity, mostly. Stupidity, arrogance, and entitlement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.thesun.ie/news/13237882/plastic-surgeon-restricted-dogs-ban-attack-psychological-damage/

What a classic example of a breed ban that doesn't solve the problem it's trying to solve. What kind of dog bite doesn't cause psychological damage? How many people don't like dogs because they were bitten as children? Were all those biting dogs "banned breeds"? No.

This is exactly the point. All dogs can bite. If you want fewer bites, you need more responsible owners.

Make an exam requirement to obtain a dog license. Increase the fines for off-leash dogs, etc. and use the funds to pay for more animal control officers. Remove the "two bite rule" and make it "one bite and you're out", encouraging owners to both better train and better contain their animals. Ban retractable leashes and other useless/dangerous equipment.

Those things would solve the problem. Breed bans only attempt to solve the PR problem some breeds have, when all breeds bite and any breed off-leash in public is a liability.

So you would ban dog parks?

No. Contain the stupidity. Some people are going to do this anyway, regardless of the fact that it's a terrible idea, so it's best to give them a specific location to do it.

I would never take my dog to one, but I believe they should exist. Every city that allows dogs should have a "central stupidity area", if for no other reason than to prevent the OP's brand of public space hijacking.

Why do you think dog parks are stupid??

Dog trainer: they’re pretty terrible. The risk of injury/attack/illness is so much higher than the benefits of “socialization”. They are the equivalent of a crowded bar with new people approaching you asking for your number every day. And those people behave weird, and can’t take a hint when you’re tired and want to be left alone. And also all glasses are shared and you lick each other. Hello, viruses.

I have dozens of client dogs whose reactivity and resource guarding and aggression increased due to dog park use. I have yet to have one whose behavior improved because of one.

The worst was a sweet little cavalier who was happy go lucky perfect little dog until another dog grabbed him roughly. He was physically fine, but we worked YEARS to fix the aggression, and never fully did. Just not a risk I want to take.

Dogs need mental and physical exercise, but they don’t need to be in a pack of strange dogs. If you don’t have the resources to meet a dog’s needs without the dog park, maybe reconsider the breed/age/species of pet you should get.

+1

Our vet and dog trainer agree. Terrible idea.

The foster organization I work with says "no dog parks" for fosters, too.

It's almost like smarter people know better...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to a dog run and the socialization is so important for our dog. The angry people on here ranting about long leashes etc likely have aggressive breed dogs, and refuse to acknowledge it.

Trainer again. “Socialization” is such a ruined term. Dogs need acclimation. They need to calmly observe and experience the world going by without negative consequences. Dogs need to lie down and do nothing while the world goes by, garbage trucks rattle, other dogs pass, babies cry, strollers stroll, etc. They do not need to play with other strange dogs.

Curated friends are a good thing! One or two known dogs with similar play styles, behaviors, mannerisms. But not a dog park. The staring border collie is rude to the body slamming retriever who is offensive to the spaniel who is scary to the tiny terrier. The person who brings their fearful dog to try to “help” is going to create an explosion of fear aggression when other dogs approach. If there is an experienced person there reading body language and stepping in and redirecting it can work with a few dogs, but 5-10-20 at a dog park is a disaster waiting to happen.

Exactly. But people get a dog without training, don't hire a trainer, think it will be fine because 'its not a pit bull' and... yeah. Yikes.

Who said the dogs aren’t trained? Most people I know have well trained dogs. Not perfect, but thankfully an imperfect moment generally won’t mean my dog loses an eye

Actually that's a hell of a lot more likely than you seem to understand, especially when you and your untrained friends and their kinda-trained dogs are at a dog park-type, off-leash, low-control environment.

Why does this make you so angry? Jealous?

You... think I'm jealous of your kinda-trained dogs at the dog park? You don't have anything I can't have, PP, unless you mean the ignorance. Nothing to be jealous of.

And I'm not "angry" just because i disagree with your position and see the flaws you don't. Go to the dog park. I'm not even trying to stop you. I won't be there to see the circus, and it really doesn't matter to me

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.thesun.ie/news/13237882/plastic-surgeon-restricted-dogs-ban-attack-psychological-damage/

What a classic example of a breed ban that doesn't solve the problem it's trying to solve. What kind of dog bite doesn't cause psychological damage? How many people don't like dogs because they were bitten as children? Were all those biting dogs "banned breeds"? No.

This is exactly the point. All dogs can bite. If you want fewer bites, you need more responsible owners.

Make an exam requirement to obtain a dog license. Increase the fines for off-leash dogs, etc. and use the funds to pay for more animal control officers. Remove the "two bite rule" and make it "one bite and you're out", encouraging owners to both better train and better contain their animals. Ban retractable leashes and other useless/dangerous equipment.

Those things would solve the problem. Breed bans only attempt to solve the PR problem some breeds have, when all breeds bite and any breed off-leash in public is a liability.

So you would ban dog parks?

No. Contain the stupidity. Some people are going to do this anyway, regardless of the fact that it's a terrible idea, so it's best to give them a specific location to do it.

I would never take my dog to one, but I believe they should exist. Every city that allows dogs should have a "central stupidity area", if for no other reason than to prevent the OP's brand of public space hijacking.

Why do you think dog parks are stupid??

Dog trainer: they’re pretty terrible. The risk of injury/attack/illness is so much higher than the benefits of “socialization”. They are the equivalent of a crowded bar with new people approaching you asking for your number every day. And those people behave weird, and can’t take a hint when you’re tired and want to be left alone. And also all glasses are shared and you lick each other. Hello, viruses.

I have dozens of client dogs whose reactivity and resource guarding and aggression increased due to dog park use. I have yet to have one whose behavior improved because of one.

The worst was a sweet little cavalier who was happy go lucky perfect little dog until another dog grabbed him roughly. He was physically fine, but we worked YEARS to fix the aggression, and never fully did. Just not a risk I want to take.

Dogs need mental and physical exercise, but they don’t need to be in a pack of strange dogs. If you don’t have the resources to meet a dog’s needs without the dog park, maybe reconsider the breed/age/species of pet you should get.

+1

Our vet and dog trainer agree. Terrible idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the house. In a fenced in area outdoors. Dog parks without fencing are ... no.

"dog parks without fencing" are not a thing. OP is breaking the law, knows it, and thinks it's somehow magically okay because others are also breaking the law.

The worst kind of stupid: stupid in groups.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to a dog run and the socialization is so important for our dog. The angry people on here ranting about long leashes etc likely have aggressive breed dogs, and refuse to acknowledge it.

Trainer again. “Socialization” is such a ruined term. Dogs need acclimation. They need to calmly observe and experience the world going by without negative consequences. Dogs need to lie down and do nothing while the world goes by, garbage trucks rattle, other dogs pass, babies cry, strollers stroll, etc. They do not need to play with other strange dogs.

Curated friends are a good thing! One or two known dogs with similar play styles, behaviors, mannerisms. But not a dog park. The staring border collie is rude to the body slamming retriever who is offensive to the spaniel who is scary to the tiny terrier. The person who brings their fearful dog to try to “help” is going to create an explosion of fear aggression when other dogs approach. If there is an experienced person there reading body language and stepping in and redirecting it can work with a few dogs, but 5-10-20 at a dog park is a disaster waiting to happen.

The dogs at our park all get along. They know each other at this point, and look forward to playing together. It’s my dogs favorite part of the day, but obviously if he didn’t like it, I wouldn’t take him. It’s generally not more than 5 dogs at a time. I find it odd you’re so against dog parks for all dogs. Do you run one of those paid socialization groups or something?

No, I do private in home training and board and trains. No social groups. Dogs don’t need social groups. We have bred and domesticated them so that we are their social groups.

Do dogs get joy out of running zoomies with safe friends? Absolutely!! My own dogs (I have three) run around together and wrestle and play. If you have a singleton dog, I think there is absolutely value in letting them play with another dog one on one. But not a public place where any time the gate opens you don’t know what you are going to get—vaccinations? Maybe—no one is checking. Tempering play to match the other dog? If you’re lucky. Ability to read, “that’s enough, please leave me alone now, I need a break”. Fingers crossed—but if I had one piece of advice for dog park users (besides please don’t!) it would be to read up on dog body language. What does ear set, tail carriage, eye direction, hackles, etc indicate in YOUR dog. You won’t be able to read it in others who you don’t know without a hell if a lot of experience (26 years and a billion CEUs later I’m still learning!) but you can at least learn to recognize when your dog is done, or is being a jerk and not listening to others. (Stereotyping, but Labs/Goldens/doodles are the biggest doofuses here—they do not read the subtleties of other breeds at all and don’t know when to stop. Often times other dogs will be giving signals for a good period of time and the retrievers just don’t get it. Then someone snaps and everyone is shocked)

I’m glad you have never experienced a negative from the dog parks. I hope you never do. But I have a steady stream of clients trying to rehab dog park social fall outs, so it’s not a random one off thing, and IMHO it’s not worth it.

Why is it the so many dog owners fell so entitled to let them go off leash in ares that it's not allowed?

We also have a dog, but follow leash laws, but sometimes it feels like we're the only ones...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to a dog run and the socialization is so important for our dog. The angry people on here ranting about long leashes etc likely have aggressive breed dogs, and refuse to acknowledge it.

Trainer again. “Socialization” is such a ruined term. Dogs need acclimation. They need to calmly observe and experience the world going by without negative consequences. Dogs need to lie down and do nothing while the world goes by, garbage trucks rattle, other dogs pass, babies cry, strollers stroll, etc. They do not need to play with other strange dogs.

Curated friends are a good thing! One or two known dogs with similar play styles, behaviors, mannerisms. But not a dog park. The staring border collie is rude to the body slamming retriever who is offensive to the spaniel who is scary to the tiny terrier. The person who brings their fearful dog to try to “help” is going to create an explosion of fear aggression when other dogs approach. If there is an experienced person there reading body language and stepping in and redirecting it can work with a few dogs, but 5-10-20 at a dog park is a disaster waiting to happen.

Exactly. But people get a dog without training, don't hire a trainer, think it will be fine because 'its not a pit bull' and... yeah. Yikes.

Who said the dogs aren’t trained? Most people I know have well trained dogs. Not perfect, but thankfully an imperfect moment generally won’t mean my dog loses an eye

Actually that's a hell of a lot more likely than you seem to understand, especially when you and your untrained friends and their kinda-trained dogs are at a dog park-type, off-leash, low-control environment.

Why does this make you so angry? Jealous?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no such thing as an "informal dog run". There may be a group of dog owners regularly breaking the law. That doesn't make it legal. The park is not your personal or collective doggy socialization zone. They do have dog parks for this, if you're interested. That's the appropriate location (or your backyard, but something tells me you'll see the liability issue there, in which case, just apply it to the potential disaster you're creating in a public park and you can answer your own question).

Yes, you should immediately begin following the laws that say you must not only have your dog leashed, but under your control. Do not let your dog approach, sniff, or bark at people without their consent. It's not "being friendly" or "socializing", it's illegal. If you use a retractable leash, STOP. They break, they're dangerous, and they don't allow for sufficient control of your animal.

While you're at it, put your phone away, and make sure your dog's license is visible and their shots are up to date (just in case).

The BS logic of "my dog would never hurt a flea" makes you sound like an idiot, BTW. You know this. I don't. My dog definitely doesn't. And, most importantly, it's not the responsibility of every other person at the public park to learn and know this about you/your dog. It's your job, as a responsible owner, to keep your dog fully under your control at all times.

You've been lucky up until now. Don't push it. You know better, so do better, and tell "all your neighbors" so they can suck less, too.

Have you ever met a golden retriever who bites? I have not. I do know Pitt bulls who have maimed and killed other animals, and various other breeds who have attacked but not with the same lethality as pitts.

Leash laws aren't just for biting. I also don't want your friendly, non-biting golden retriever running up to my 4 year old who is afraid of dogs and scaring the ever living daylight out of her. Which happened once at the "informal dog run" in our neighborhood. The dog was perfectly friendly so I was thankfully not worried about the dog mauling my kid, but it also was obviously untrained with zero recall, as when the owner sauntered up a moment later, the dog fully ignored its owner for several minutes while eating all my kid's goldfish and licking both of us on the hands and face. Were we hurt? No. Was it a totally unwelcome and inappropriate interaction? Yes.

Leash your dog.

Serious question. Why are you on this sub if you dislike animals so much? Do you have a pet goldfish?

I love animals-- I have a dog and a cat.

I don't like being licked by a total strangers dig and I ESPECIALLY don't like my kid being licked by a strangers dog.

I don't let my dog lick other people and she's not allowed to pick our faces because it's unsanitary.

You sound phobic. What kind of dog do you have?

^ a cocker spaniel

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never do! But I regularly see people doing this, which makes it so difficult when I’m walking my dog. Their dog inevitably comes after mine.

People get so testy if you ask “is that your dog?”

Kick it. If it's close enough to your foot, kick it. That's WAY too close.

Why would you kick another dog? I walk my dog on a leash but frankly I wouldn’t keep a dog who I couldn’t trust to not be aggressive and bite if another dog came up to him. I live in a dense community and if your dog is that sensitive and prone to attack, you probably shouldn’t have it at all.

You believe that I should only have a flawless dog, just in case some ahole owner willfully and deliberately flaunts the law and allows their dog off leash, and you're mad at the idea that I might kick an unleashed dog who got too close?

I didn't even say I was with my dog. If your unleashed dog comes running up to just me, I will kick it. If you don't want your dog getting kicked, leash it and keep it away.

Y'all are entirely too fscking trusting.

Isn’t this a thread about dog owners?

I don’t think people need to have flawless dogs. All dogs make mistakes. But I do think people shouldn’t have dogs that will likely do serious damage when they make a mistake. See the distinction?

So people should only own chihuahuas, and only if they don't have small children?

Where did the post say this?

"people shouldn’t have dogs that will likely do serious damage when they make a mistake"

What dogs would those be? Under what circumstances? The only example I could think of would be an adult with a chihuahua, but never around small children. Literally every other dog could do "serious damage" especially to a child.

I was bit by a dog. I bled. But I wasn’t mauled to death or maimed.