Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 17:59     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Estate attorney here. I do both estates planning and estates settlements. It is heartless, selfish and cruel to expect people to give away their stuff at old age, just to make it easier for the next generation to clean up. Let them live among their "treasures". Emotionally it will be way easier for you to throw out the stuff once they have to move to assisted living or pass away, then for them to throw it out and live in a bare house/apartment.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 13:52     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
And wanted to quickly add... why do I have stuff in the first place -- kids! I came to this country with one suitcase and know one doesn't need much. You can make a guess how I developed dislike for material possessions.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 13:45     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:

I am not the same person. Just another one who think's your selfish and gross. And you are not alone, there are many like you on here. I'm nowhere near elderly, either. So you can take your assumptions and stuff them.

You are now resorting/changing to your parents were not good people. THat is a separate issue. Your defensive betrays your guilt. It's evident.

As for what you will/won't do as you get older, I hope you do as you say. And that you are extended more grace, patience, and compassion then you are showing.


You are the same person, you use the same language and grammar. I have nothing to have guilt about. I don't have guilt about my mom being a hoarder. That would be weird, no?! People who are unable to part with their material possessions over their lifetime are NOT good people and have never been. They are selfish and greedy, lack the ability to plan, have entitlement and expectations, often think of themselves instead of others, making them crappy parents. And they have been such people their entire lives, it didn't happen yesterday. These are the people we talk about here. Most of us have seen different type of elders and naturally, you are not going to be a different person in your elder years compared to who you've always been. My mom has never been able to part with her possessions, because possessions define who she is. I'm not that person, so I'll never end up in the same circumstances. And to make you feel better (if you're able to), I'm reducing the stuff we have around the house right at this moment, I don't expect nor want my kids to waste their time/money/effort on stuff that should have been taken care of long ago. I want to be remembered differently.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 13:23     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:You are the same person using the same language, pretending to be a different person supporting yourself. I am not selfish nor a heartless piece of garbage for not wanting to clean out your s*. You are the selfish person here, and I'm sure you're speaking for yourself, probably sitting on a pile of garbage, demanding your adult kids to deal with it. Yes, there is resentment for a reason. This is a board to come to exchange experiences with eldercare, and most people who come here have NEGATIVE experiences, because the elders in their lives are/were not good people with good characters. It happens, not everybody is a kind and generous person, turning into a kind and generous elder. There is a reason for that. Otherwise I wouldn't be on this board. I feel absolutely no shame nor pity, you and such elders have created their own circumstances. Your guilt tripping and manipulation does not work in the end. And I can add that I'll never be that person in the end, the same as I never was that person all my life (these scenarios as you say don't magically happen in the end out of nowhere).


I am not the same person. Just another one who think's your selfish and gross. And you are not alone, there are many like you on here. I'm nowhere near elderly, either. So you can take your assumptions and stuff them.

You are now resorting/changing to your parents were not good people. THat is a separate issue. Your defensive betrays your guilt. It's evident.

As for what you will/won't do as you get older, I hope you do as you say. And that you are extended more grace, patience, and compassion then you are showing.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 13:20     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
I’ve low key started to clean out my IL’s little-used vacation condo - started in the kitchen, tossing spices, drink mixes & condiments older than my young adult DC. Moved on to tossing expired meds, ancient toiletry items. There’s not one empty surface there without tchotchkes in/above/around. Tip of the iceberg but so satisfying.

Have to start somewhere. Their main residence is even more cluttered and getting worse as the holidays begin.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 12:48     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
You are the same person using the same language, pretending to be a different person supporting yourself. I am not selfish nor a heartless piece of garbage for not wanting to clean out your s*. You are the selfish person here, and I'm sure you're speaking for yourself, probably sitting on a pile of garbage, demanding your adult kids to deal with it. Yes, there is resentment for a reason. This is a board to come to exchange experiences with eldercare, and most people who come here have NEGATIVE experiences, because the elders in their lives are/were not good people with good characters. It happens, not everybody is a kind and generous person, turning into a kind and generous elder. There is a reason for that. Otherwise I wouldn't be on this board. I feel absolutely no shame nor pity, you and such elders have created their own circumstances. Your guilt tripping and manipulation does not work in the end. And I can add that I'll never be that person in the end, the same as I never was that person all my life (these scenarios as you say don't magically happen in the end out of nowhere).
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 11:10     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

If you think I resent my mom and remember her poorly as a selfish person because I had to take 1-2 weeks of my personal time to declutter first her house and second her condo after she passed away… then you are a complete idiot. She did many, many good things for me and I had no problem doing some hard work for her in the endgame.

“Hey could you please throw away all your possessions to make it more convenient for me when you croak” is the attitude of a garbage human being (ie you).


What kind of vile person comes online to call strangers' names because they can make no reasonable argument? I'm not a complete idiot and neither is any other woman who doesn't want to do work that somebody else should have done. You do not get to bully others online. Good for you that your mom did good things for you and you have the time and willingness. Not everybody is like you. In the end, yes, it's important to make peace with your passing and getting rid of your material possessions in due time is the right thing to do. Generations before us did that. I'd say not collecting all the material possessions in the first place is better, but for that one needs a person with a more spiritual worldview. It's a sad life when everything revolves around your possessions, and even worse if you expect and demand others to deal with them. It's obviously not about convenience, it's about what the person stands for and their example of the life experience.


NP and I fully agree with the PP you're criticizing. SHe didn't bully you. She called you out for being the heartless and selfish person you are presenting on here. And her argument is sound: these are YOUR PARENTS. And your attitude is shameful.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 11:08     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

It took two weeks of twelve hour days to declutter a three story house with 40 years of hoarded stuff (plus three additional storage units also full of useless garbage) but it was still not “martyrdom” and I’m not in here crying like a baby about it.


So you think your adult kids should use their yearly vacation time plus take extra time off work to clear out 40 years of stuff that nobody has wanted to touch? That's very "considerate" of you and you'll be remembered well. By remembered well I mean as someone with clear mental issues and inability to think ahead, making it all about yourself in the end (as always, not a surprise).


If you think I resent my mom and remember her poorly as a selfish person because I had to take 1-2 weeks of my personal time to declutter first her house and second her condo after she passed away… then you are a complete idiot. She did many, many good things for me and I had no problem doing some hard work for her in the endgame.

“Hey could you please throw away all your possessions to make it more convenient for me when you croak” is the attitude of a garbage human being (ie you).


THIS. I'm so sick of the scorn and resentment of the elderly on this board. Many of you just want them to go silently and conveniently away so you don't have to deal with the people who raised, fed, cared for you. You think that was convenient for them all the time? Do you not realize that YOU will be the elderly person in these scenarios at some point? Have we lost all compassion and grace?

Yes, it's inconvenient. Yes, we wish we didn't have to do it. But, god damn, some of you are heartless pieces of garbage. These people are facing end of life, with physical and mental limitations. They are anxious. Scared. Don't want to face it. And you're complaining about taking time off work???? Your problem is with your companies' stingy leave policies, not your parents.

This is life. Deal with it.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2024 11:01     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:

If you think I resent my mom and remember her poorly as a selfish person because I had to take 1-2 weeks of my personal time to declutter first her house and second her condo after she passed away… then you are a complete idiot. She did many, many good things for me and I had no problem doing some hard work for her in the endgame.

“Hey could you please throw away all your possessions to make it more convenient for me when you croak” is the attitude of a garbage human being (ie you).


What kind of vile person comes online to call strangers' names because they can make no reasonable argument? I'm not a complete idiot and neither is any other woman who doesn't want to do work that somebody else should have done. You do not get to bully others online. Good for you that your mom did good things for you and you have the time and willingness. Not everybody is like you. In the end, yes, it's important to make peace with your passing and getting rid of your material possessions in due time is the right thing to do. Generations before us did that. I'd say not collecting all the material possessions in the first place is better, but for that one needs a person with a more spiritual worldview. It's a sad life when everything revolves around your possessions, and even worse if you expect and demand others to deal with them. It's obviously not about convenience, it's about what the person stands for and their example of the life experience.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 16:33     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

It took two weeks of twelve hour days to declutter a three story house with 40 years of hoarded stuff (plus three additional storage units also full of useless garbage) but it was still not “martyrdom” and I’m not in here crying like a baby about it.


So you think your adult kids should use their yearly vacation time plus take extra time off work to clear out 40 years of stuff that nobody has wanted to touch? That's very "considerate" of you and you'll be remembered well. By remembered well I mean as someone with clear mental issues and inability to think ahead, making it all about yourself in the end (as always, not a surprise).


If you think I resent my mom and remember her poorly as a selfish person because I had to take 1-2 weeks of my personal time to declutter first her house and second her condo after she passed away… then you are a complete idiot. She did many, many good things for me and I had no problem doing some hard work for her in the endgame.

“Hey could you please throw away all your possessions to make it more convenient for me when you croak” is the attitude of a garbage human being (ie you).
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 15:08     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:it took 6 months of sorting and cleaning and trashing the contents of my parents house (two hours away from where I lived) to get it sold while I had a newborn. I wish I could have just outsourced it all, but they'd lived there several years with dementia and I was still finding critical paperwork months into it. at least 6 dump trucks, a 30 yard dumpster, endless donations later and the winning buyer said I could leave whatever I wanted that was left. Fortunately we landed a daycare spot 3 months in, and I could use FMLA.

It sucks. It's heartbreaking and even worse when they aren't even dead yet.

I understand how two silent generation war/rationing babies ended up as hoarders. But all their life they would refuse to plan, refuse to budget, refuse to talk about being ill or what they wanted as of end-of-life. I had to blackmail them into getting wills and powers of attorneys done (they had needed me to pay their mortgage or else they'd lose the house), and once done would refuse to talk any more about it. If you'd ask them, they just expected that I'd quit my life and take care of them personally-- ignoring the fact that I was the primary wage earner for all of us, and also ignoring the fact that ultimately they got violent and paranoid and I couldn't safely personally provide care to them anyway.

I may not succeed in paring my belongings down to the minimum. But hopefully I won't leave my kid with such a pile of unachievable expectations, and I'm trying to keep my finances clear and straightforward.



This is OP. Our stories have a lot of similarities. My parents escaped war and trauma and I think a lot of it played into their failure to plan or think about planning for the future. I don't think they even knew planning was an option, and if we brought it up, they would just shut down.It's bloody awful. Doesn't help that my sister thinks I am being cruel, but unfortunately she is headed for a similar trajectory.


I'm sorry. I hope you have friends or other relatives that can empathize with you and support you. You're doing the best you can. Even when you know it's not what they want, or someone thinks it is cruel, you're doing what you can with the resources you have, and that's all anyone can ask of you. It's okay to be angry about how things ended up. It's ok to have really complex feelings around parents, and responsibility, and loss, and grief. You'll have even more complex feelings when she ultimately succumbs to the disease (it's really easy to feel guilty when relief is all mixed up with the grief). Be gentle with yourself, try not to beat yourself up, and also consider finding someone to talk to if you can't let go of the anger as time goes on.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 14:53     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:it took 6 months of sorting and cleaning and trashing the contents of my parents house (two hours away from where I lived) to get it sold while I had a newborn. I wish I could have just outsourced it all, but they'd lived there several years with dementia and I was still finding critical paperwork months into it. at least 6 dump trucks, a 30 yard dumpster, endless donations later and the winning buyer said I could leave whatever I wanted that was left. Fortunately we landed a daycare spot 3 months in, and I could use FMLA.

It sucks. It's heartbreaking and even worse when they aren't even dead yet.

I understand how two silent generation war/rationing babies ended up as hoarders. But all their life they would refuse to plan, refuse to budget, refuse to talk about being ill or what they wanted as of end-of-life. I had to blackmail them into getting wills and powers of attorneys done (they had needed me to pay their mortgage or else they'd lose the house), and once done would refuse to talk any more about it. If you'd ask them, they just expected that I'd quit my life and take care of them personally-- ignoring the fact that I was the primary wage earner for all of us, and also ignoring the fact that ultimately they got violent and paranoid and I couldn't safely personally provide care to them anyway.

I may not succeed in paring my belongings down to the minimum. But hopefully I won't leave my kid with such a pile of unachievable expectations, and I'm trying to keep my finances clear and straightforward.



This is OP. Our stories have a lot of similarities. My parents escaped war and trauma and I think a lot of it played into their failure to plan or think about planning for the future. I don't think they even knew planning was an option, and if we brought it up, they would just shut down.It's bloody awful. Doesn't help that my sister thinks I am being cruel, but unfortunately she is headed for a similar trajectory.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 14:47     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
it took 6 months of sorting and cleaning and trashing the contents of my parents house (two hours away from where I lived) to get it sold while I had a newborn. I wish I could have just outsourced it all, but they'd lived there several years with dementia and I was still finding critical paperwork months into it. at least 6 dump trucks, a 30 yard dumpster, endless donations later and the winning buyer said I could leave whatever I wanted that was left. Fortunately we landed a daycare spot 3 months in, and I could use FMLA.

It sucks. It's heartbreaking and even worse when they aren't even dead yet.

I understand how two silent generation war/rationing babies ended up as hoarders. But all their life they would refuse to plan, refuse to budget, refuse to talk about being ill or what they wanted as of end-of-life. I had to blackmail them into getting wills and powers of attorneys done (they had needed me to pay their mortgage or else they'd lose the house), and once done would refuse to talk any more about it. If you'd ask them, they just expected that I'd quit my life and take care of them personally-- ignoring the fact that I was the primary wage earner for all of us, and also ignoring the fact that ultimately they got violent and paranoid and I couldn't safely personally provide care to them anyway.

I may not succeed in paring my belongings down to the minimum. But hopefully I won't leave my kid with such a pile of unachievable expectations, and I'm trying to keep my finances clear and straightforward.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 14:45     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Indeed, I was reading another thread on family relationships board I believe where the majority are telling their kids to accept whatever grandparents buy them and to not say anything, even if they don't like or need the things... and it's been going on for years. No wonder extreme over-consumption is so prevalent. People literally buy things they don't need or want and push them on others who also don't need or want them. Yay, holidays!
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2024 14:09     Subject: Very sad today--home clean out
Anonymous wrote:People in this country have too much junk and cyber Monday is not helping


And Black Friday sales starting a week early.