Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

At least it only lasted a year. We made the mistake of sending our late-November-born son at 4, and were NEVER able to hold him back.

There are plenty of adults currently over the age of 30 who went to kindergarten at 4 years old and did just fine. In 1975 there were only a handful of states that had September cut off dates for kindergarten. In 2010 a lot more states had cut off dates of September. Northeast states has the most later cut off dates.

Connecticut had January 1st cut off dates for kindergarten until last year when they changed it to September. Massachusetts always left it up to the individual school districts and many had December cut off dates until recently. New Hampshire still has December cut off dates. But most states are trying to be uniform in their ages. People do move around a lot and uniformity helps.

This link shows the 1975 dates in US states compared to 2010

https://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/73/67/7367.pdf

So if the kids were doing "fine"...why did the vast, vast majority of states change their cutoffs? You realize you are kind of proving the pp's point, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins who missed the cut-off (Sept 1st) in our district by about 10 days and now turned 18 a few weeks into senior year.
They were also 6 weeks premature so at the time (age 4 when they started PK) we thrilled for the "gift of time."

Let me tell you. Having two 18 year olds under our roof and under our rules is PAINFUL. We are very chill parents and they are good kids: strong students, etc (in fact they just applied to top20 schools--fingers crossed) but it's clear that they could be thriving in college right now and are 100% ready for more independence. We butt heads A LOT.
Nothing was an issue until the last month or so---17 was great but now they're legal adults. They want to be in the next stage of life. And yet here they are living under our roof and having to complete another 7 months of high school and 9 months of living with mom and dad.

Just another perspective on the entire redshirting debate. Being 18 for an entire year of high school is HARD.

I thought you cherish every day up until they leave the nest? no?

The parent who wrote this is anti-redshirting and usually the anti-redshirting posters are the ones who actively dislike their kids, so it tracks.

I want my kid to have the opportunity to grow and move on to college. Keeping a child home for an extra year for your needs is abusive. I want my kid at a college close to us but keeping older kids home is wrong. You need to prepare them for school and beyond and the lazy way out is holding them back.

I don’t think anyone is talking about keeping an older child home. They are talking about kids who are near the cutoff date and struggled being the youngest in the class either academically or emotionally. In addition, there is a 4-6 month difference in cut off dates by state so from a national perspective (and your child will be competing on a national level when it comes to applying to and attending college) a child turning 5 on December 31st attending kindergarten in New York is at a disadvantage. And statistically much more likely to be diagnosed with adhd or a learning disability since they are in a developmentally innapropriate program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

At least it only lasted a year. We made the mistake of sending our late-November-born son at 4, and were NEVER able to hold him back.

There are plenty of adults currently over the age of 30 who went to kindergarten at 4 years old and did just fine. In 1975 there were only a handful of states that had September cut off dates for kindergarten. In 2010 a lot more states had cut off dates of September. Northeast states has the most later cut off dates.

Connecticut had January 1st cut off dates for kindergarten until last year when they changed it to September. Massachusetts always left it up to the individual school districts and many had December cut off dates until recently. New Hampshire still has December cut off dates. But most states are trying to be uniform in their ages. People do move around a lot and uniformity helps.

This link shows the 1975 dates in US states compared to 2010

https://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/73/67/7367.pdf

Yes and they fared fine for two reasons: 1) most states had a late cutoff (so you didn’t have 4.5 year olds starting kindergarten in New York and 6 year olds starting elsewhere) and 2) kindergarten was more play based until about 20 years ago - now it’s very academic, structured, sedentary and somewhat developmentally innapropriate for a 4 year old, especially when the rest of the country has to be 5 before September 1st in order to start.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

At least it only lasted a year. We made the mistake of sending our late-November-born son at 4, and were NEVER able to hold him back.

There are plenty of adults currently over the age of 30 who went to kindergarten at 4 years old and did just fine. In 1975 there were only a handful of states that had September cut off dates for kindergarten. In 2010 a lot more states had cut off dates of September. Northeast states has the most later cut off dates.

Connecticut had January 1st cut off dates for kindergarten until last year when they changed it to September. Massachusetts always left it up to the individual school districts and many had December cut off dates until recently. New Hampshire still has December cut off dates. But most states are trying to be uniform in their ages. People do move around a lot and uniformity helps.

This link shows the 1975 dates in US states compared to 2010

https://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/73/67/7367.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins who missed the cut-off (Sept 1st) in our district by about 10 days and now turned 18 a few weeks into senior year.
They were also 6 weeks premature so at the time (age 4 when they started PK) we thrilled for the "gift of time."

Let me tell you. Having two 18 year olds under our roof and under our rules is PAINFUL. We are very chill parents and they are good kids: strong students, etc (in fact they just applied to top20 schools--fingers crossed) but it's clear that they could be thriving in college right now and are 100% ready for more independence. We butt heads A LOT.
Nothing was an issue until the last month or so---17 was great but now they're legal adults. They want to be in the next stage of life. And yet here they are living under our roof and having to complete another 7 months of high school and 9 months of living with mom and dad.

Just another perspective on the entire redshirting debate. Being 18 for an entire year of high school is HARD.

I thought you cherish every day up until they leave the nest? no?

The parent who wrote this is anti-redshirting and usually the anti-redshirting posters are the ones who actively dislike their kids, so it tracks.

I want my kid to have the opportunity to grow and move on to college. Keeping a child home for an extra year for your needs is abusive. I want my kid at a college close to us but keeping older kids home is wrong. You need to prepare them for school and beyond and the lazy way out is holding them back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins who missed the cut-off (Sept 1st) in our district by about 10 days and now turned 18 a few weeks into senior year.
They were also 6 weeks premature so at the time (age 4 when they started PK) we thrilled for the "gift of time."

Let me tell you. Having two 18 year olds under our roof and under our rules is PAINFUL. We are very chill parents and they are good kids: strong students, etc (in fact they just applied to top20 schools--fingers crossed) but it's clear that they could be thriving in college right now and are 100% ready for more independence. We butt heads A LOT.
Nothing was an issue until the last month or so---17 was great but now they're legal adults. They want to be in the next stage of life. And yet here they are living under our roof and having to complete another 7 months of high school and 9 months of living with mom and dad.

Just another perspective on the entire redshirting debate. Being 18 for an entire year of high school is HARD.

I thought you cherish every day up until they leave the nest? no?

The parent who wrote this is anti-redshirting and usually the anti-redshirting posters are the ones who actively dislike their kids, so it tracks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

Maybe you and the child's preschool didn't prepare him as my late September child had no issues and actually had special needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids turned 18 early in the school yer and we didn't' butt heads at all. I actually worried the opposite about our youngest. I think a gap year would have been a good idea.

Turning 18 during the school year Senior year is different than turning 19.

Who is turning 19...?

The Anti-Redshirt crusade can never do math.

Parents holding kids back in March or April will be 19 when they graduate from high school.

Anonymous wrote:I have twins who missed the cut-off (Sept 1st) in our district by about 10 days and now turned 18 a few weeks into senior year.
They were also 6 weeks premature so at the time (age 4 when they started PK) we thrilled for the "gift of time."

Let me tell you. Having two 18 year olds under our roof and under our rules is PAINFUL. We are very chill parents and they are good kids: strong students, etc (in fact they just applied to top20 schools--fingers crossed) but it's clear that they could be thriving in college right now and are 100% ready for more independence. We butt heads A LOT.
Nothing was an issue until the last month or so---17 was great but now they're legal adults. They want to be in the next stage of life. And yet here they are living under our roof and having to complete another 7 months of high school and 9 months of living with mom and dad.

Just another perspective on the entire redshirting debate. Being 18 for an entire year of high school is HARD.

I thought you cherish every day up until they leave the nest? no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

At least it only lasted a year. We made the mistake of sending our late-November-born son at 4, and were NEVER able to hold him back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

I hate, hate, hate the NYC policy. My son's birthday is December 29th, and we lived in NYC until he was in 3rd grade. Let me tell you that when he started Kindergarten at 4, and was 4 for four months of the school year, it was pure hell. I tried so hard to have him held back, but the DOE would not budge. We ended up having to enroll him in a private school so he could repeat K.

I have no answers to why they do it, but was an extreme disadvantage to my son.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

Debatable. Kids who go to KG as 4 year olds in NYC are even less ready for the developmentally inappropriate, sedentary curriculum and are more much more likely to have behavioral and academic difficulties (which can really impact their attitude towards school and success later down the line). In fact, controlling for demographics, the students with late birthdays in NYC were significantly more likely to be labeled with a learning disability and the strongest variable predicting that label was birth month.

That's in addition to the finding -- in states with September cutoffs -- that kids with August birthdays are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.

I'm not convinced that being labeled with a disability and then having to navigate the world of special education, or dealing with the often devastating consequences as being labeled a "behavior problem" as a youngster -- simply because the late birthdays are pushed into developmentally inappropriate expectations that they cannot meet, NOT because they *actually* have a disability or a serious behavior problem -- is a better alternative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is a straw-man argument because almost nobody redshirts their kid. Even the vast majority of kids born between October and December start on time. I started a year late because I'm small and would've looked like a hobbit next to my peers, but I'm over 30 now and can count on one hand the number of people I know, myself included, who were redshirted. So you just sound like a hammer looking for a nail.

Of course Oct-Dec go on time because in almost every state they are the oldest. Not NY so you must be from NY.

DP but from New York and have kids with fall birthdays.

First of all, most privates here have a 9/1 or 10/1 cutoff. It’s the public schools and a handful of privates (including ours) that have 12/31 cutoffs.

A lot of people do hold back fall (and summer) birthdays here, especially boys. In my son’s private with a 12/31 cutoff, 50% of fall birthdays redshirt.

It was much less common when we were growing up, and is more confusing now that NY is such an outlier from the rest of the country with its late cutoff. It’s primarily so low income families have access to childcare sooner, including universal prek. It’s not because it developmentally appropriate for most children to start today’s very structured and sedentary kindergarten curriculum at 4 years old - it’s primarily a better alternative to low quality childcare for low income families.

In the DMV, all schools are either 9/1 or 9/30, not 12/31, which is NY specific. No privates here have a late cut off but some are a bit more flexible, but usually its the ones that are small with open spots/not competative.

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it’s as painful as having an adult child who won’t speak to you because you sent them too young and doomed them to struggle socially and academically all through school. But the information about relative age in school wasn’t as publicly available then as it is now. Now that I know, what SO and I is comparable to child abuse.

What are you talking about? I sent my child younger and as a teen now they are glad I did it. If your child is struggling you help them or get them help, you don't just ignore it, hold them back and hope they overcome it. You are full of it. My child is in all of the highest level classes including the highest math track.

I doubt it’s as painful as having an adult child who won’t speak to you because you sent them too young and doomed them to struggle socially and academically all through school. But the information about relative age in school wasn’t as publicly available then as it is now. Now that I know, what SO and I is comparable to child abuse.