Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Male here - many, many years ago I had a female boss who was disliked by most women and men because she was tough and demanding. She was an early female Harvard MBA and one of the few women in a very senior position. To succeed in a world of men, she had to be tough. I got along great with her because I wasn’t intimidated by her and she liked that I pushed back and it helped I was good at my job. We had many long conversations about managing and leadership and I think I helped her become a better boss and she me. As a PP said, team sports has been very beneficial.

That's great, but what some of us are talking about is "mean girl" behavior, which women specifically reserve for other women. The whole point of being a mean girl is to put other women down. They only do it to other women, so a man will have a very nice experience even with the mean girl boss. Women know what I am talking about, and it is very hard to explain to me who do not understand the deep interpersonal dynamics between women.

Yes. It’s this. I can’t even explain the mean girl behavior that happens. Some of it is very petty and men see it happen too but it doesn’t happen to them directly. My first day as a new manager, another manager on the same level as me came in and offered everyone (like 6 people were in my office talking to me) homemade truffles. Except me. She wouldn’t look at me and smiled as she walked out. That was just the beginning. I would get left off emails, excluded from meetings and generally attacked in meetings I did attend by her. She did it to a few other women too. I’m well liked, non argumentative, helpful, and good at my job. I’ve never been able to figure out why she hates me. We’ve risen the ranks at the same time and others have asked me about her behavior. If I could opine on why she hates me- I’m attractive and perky/cheerful. She’s attractive too though, so I’m not sure why that would threaten her.

As a female manager I refuse to do things like this to other women and I make sure the people below me treat everyone with kindness.

Anonymous wrote:I have wondered this for years. I’m 38 and I can’t tell you the amount of female bullies I’ve encountered (not always bullying me but I see it). As my peers and I have risen the ranks, it seems different. I really don’t see the nastiness from my peers like I did boomers and Gen X. We are actively working to take down a particularly bad bully now. I’m in a position of power and I can’t let it slide any more.

To elaborate on what I think is bullying: withholding information for zero reason except power, screaming at colleagues, repeating nasty rumors about colleagues, pumping colleagues for information just to belittle them later for it. While the older women seem to do it to both men and women, the women do take it more personally. I’ve never had male colleagues treat others similarly. To be fair, I enjoy working with both men and women. Obviously all women aren’t bad, but when they’re bad- they’re vicious.

I'm also 38 and I've had completely the opposite experience. I had two boomer female bosses and they were absolutely wonderful. They would start every morning asking how they could make our days easier and were so supportive. I think it boiled down to them being excellent at hiring so they fully trusted all their staff and didn't need to micromanage.
Now I have had two female bosses my own age and their modus seems to be hire any warm body to get the job done, nitpick everything the staff does and fire as needed. It is horrible for morale to have to work with such idiots and try to bring them up to speed. They are extremely race conscious as well whereas the old bosses were of the "color blind" mentality.

Anonymous wrote:Women are used to "girl dynamics" from school years. Everyone is an enemy because the gossip and behind the scenes power stealing is alive and real (and you don't know which woman it is so you have to assume everyone is complicit). For men, they still do this but it is more direct and obvious. They only need to worry about the threat in front of them and not the ones behind the scenes.

^This.

Anonymous wrote:Still better than men leaders with nothing to show for except their balls.

No, they are just as bad just in a different way.

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve wondered this myself. My male managers have always been a lot more easygoing than my female ones who tend to be more unsympathetic and prone to micromanagement. Of course, this could very well just be specific to my experience.

Female managers are held to a higher standard and cannot afford to be easygoing. They only got the job by being more intense than the male competition, and virtually error free.

Yep mediocre males get promoted. Mediocre females, not so much.

Completely false these days. Maybe back in the 1970s, but it's opposite now.

Depends on the industry, company size. Mine still is mediocre males get promoted, but women have to be stellar.

Men are favored in high turnover industries because they are easy to fire without risk of lawsuits. Easily replaceable as well.

+1,000

I know only one mean one. She was really goo at what she did and expect it from other women. She didn't expect the same from men though. Totally normal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve wondered this myself. My male managers have always been a lot more easygoing than my female ones who tend to be more unsympathetic and prone to micromanagement. Of course, this could very well just be specific to my experience.

Female managers are held to a higher standard and cannot afford to be easygoing. They only got the job by being more intense than the male competition, and virtually error free.

Yep mediocre males get promoted. Mediocre females, not so much.

Completely false these days. Maybe back in the 1970s, but it's opposite now.

Depends on the industry, company size. Mine still is mediocre males get promoted, but women have to be stellar.

Men are favored in high turnover industries because they are easy to fire without risk of lawsuits. Easily replaceable as well.