Proposals to combine two universities in different metro areas might make sense if they were primarily residential universities.

VA State and NSU are primarily commuter universities and they are in different metro areas. Combining them does not make sense.

Academically strong students are much more likely to choose Hampton University over NSU in any case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

Um, it’s an article about a report to the governor from an official government agency.

No, it's not. It's Dwayne Yancy's opinion on a report for Cardinal News, a small non-profit paper that tries to cover ""the untold story of SE and S Virginia". It says "OPINION" at the top. Always check before reading: opinion or news

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article and I was surprised to see Mary Washington having more problems than Radford or Longwood. Also surprised to see Christopher Newport in the list. Not surprised to see VA state or Norfolk. They should probably combine to be one strong school and maybe they could attract some students who were heading to Howard.

The report doesn’t mean any state level actions will take place but I think it is interesting and there likely does need to be action.


https://cardinalnews.org/2024/10/09/state-report-says-seven-small-universities-should-be-monitored-as-enrollment-cliff-approaches/

It’s interesting that you propose that VA State and Norfolk combine but not, say, Longwood and CNU.

The first two are HBCUs, why not combine to create a larger HBCU?

+1
It seems like maybe most kids don't want an HBCU. Maybe they've outlived their original purpose? I'm sure I'll be called a "racist" for stating a fact, but you can't make kids choose a school they're not interested in.

I think it's a legitimate question to be asking in 2024 and what the future of the schools should be. Many are struggling not just the ones in Virginia.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

No, it's not an opinion piece. It's a news article that is citing information from a report published by JOINT LEGISLATIVE AUDIT
AND REVIEW COMMISSION , "In 2023, the Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission (JLARC) directed staff to review public four-year
higher education institutions. This report addresses institutional viability and academic program offerings."

Here is the link to the report itself:
https://jlarc.virginia.gov/pdfs/reports/Rpt593.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

Um, it’s an article about a report to the governor from an official government agency.

Everyone! OP is referring is to an OPINION piecd not a new article. Big difference

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

This is the strangest take.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

So much opinion, so little fact.

So you haven't lived out of state. (We've live in several real states with real colleges.) And you don't know any smart kids? (We know several dozen high performers from different states.) Yours is a typical provincial, townie response from people that don't understand that these are the facts. There're no Disneyland ride lines of out-of-staters trying to get into any Virginia school, public or private, as there are for many, many schools in numerous other states. At least MD has JHU and DC has Georgetown.

Talk about provincial... no one is discussing private colleges on this thread. This thread is about VA state schools. Move along and rant somewhere else.
DP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article and I was surprised to see Mary Washington having more problems than Radford or Longwood. Also surprised to see Christopher Newport in the list. Not surprised to see VA state or Norfolk. They should probably combine to be one strong school and maybe they could attract some students who were heading to Howard.

The report doesn’t mean any state level actions will take place but I think it is interesting and there likely does need to be action.


https://cardinalnews.org/2024/10/09/state-report-says-seven-small-universities-should-be-monitored-as-enrollment-cliff-approaches/

It’s interesting that you propose that VA State and Norfolk combine but not, say, Longwood and CNU.

The first two are HBCUs, why not combine to create a larger HBCU?

+1
It seems like maybe most kids don't want an HBCU. Maybe they've outlived their original purpose? I'm sure I'll be called a "racist" for stating a fact, but you can't make kids choose a school they're not interested in.

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

WTH did I just read? This post actually made me laugh out loud.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

So much opinion, so little fact.

So you haven't lived out of state. (We've live in several real states with real colleges.) And you don't know any smart kids? (We know several dozen high performers from different states.) Yours is a typical provincial, townie response from people that don't understand that these are the facts. There're no Disneyland ride lines of out-of-staters trying to get into any Virginia school, public or private, as there are for many, many schools in numerous other states. At least MD has JHU and DC has Georgetown.

Anonymous wrote:JMU is losing students to big out of state schools, so they are admitting students that 10 years ago would have gone to CNU, Radford, etc.

https://www.breezejmu.org/news/investigations-2020-enrollment-rate-fluctuates-brushes-against-goals/article_2dba1734-d524-11ea-8e84-13ead8c0e900.html

JMU simply can’t counter these “really nice” scholarship offers, Walsh explained. The university’s key competitors for out-of-state students, like Clemson and Penn State, are prepared to give 56-60% of the out-of-state students they recruit merit aid, which is need-blind aid given based on a student’s academic performance, while JMU offers merit aid to roughly 15% of their out-of-state recruits, Walsh said.

Perrine said JMU regularly competes for out-of-state students with schools that have been around longer and have significantly larger endowments than JMU. This endowment disparity means that JMU often can’t match the financial aid incentives given to these students, offering on average $6,000-12,000 to out-of-state students that received an average of $18,000 from competing universities, Walsh said.

Clemson and Penn St OOS tuition are both around $42k. JMU is $32k. Saying this as a JMU grad, but I think kids would just rather attend PSU or Clemson.

What kind of a$$wipe tries to rationalize underfunding HBCUs?

VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Maybe they had some extra per pupil in recent years but that doesn’t cover the huge gap.

And VSU is 1/6th the size of VT. Many expenses aren’t linear.