Anonymous wrote:UVA is not the be all, end all. Hell my kid had the stats two years ago but was waitlisted. Loving his OOS flagship. Couldn't imagine attending anywhere else. Plus they whopped the Cavs butt in football on national TV this year.

I'm sure the dopamine hit you recieved from this post was fun. Completely off-topic and gratuitous. Look at the rest of your schedule... enjoy your 3 wins turtle.

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Then find a college that is a better fit for you outside T20. You don’t make the rules

Yeah, but I can still have an opinion as to whether the requirement is dumb or not.

What is your opinion accomplishing?

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Anonymous wrote:UVA is not the be all, end all. Hell my kid had the stats two years ago but was waitlisted. Loving his OOS flagship. Couldn't imagine attending anywhere else. Plus they whopped the Cavs butt in football on national TV this year.

Of course it’s not but a lot of us are only able to do instate for our kids. OOS is not an option.

DP and UVA alum. It’s not even the be all, end all in the state of Virginia. Lots of happy, hard-working, career-bound kids spread thoughout our in-state options.

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Anonymous wrote:Oh, and you have to get all A’s in these classes.

And a 34+/1500+

And awesome EC’s.

Good luck. No pressure.

This is just not true. Stop the BS.

They are not lying. Go look at the SCHEV report. Last year's inciming class reported a 34 at the 75th percentile: 33 at the median. SAT scores were 1510 at the 75th percentile; 1470 at the median. GPA is 4.51 at the 75th percentile.

If unhooked, your student should be aiming for 75th percentile or higher, especially if from NOVA, where where is the most competition is from.

also top 6% of class

also national awards.

also many top ECs.


Go to Reddit or College Confidential and look at the stats of applicants who were waitlisted or denied

Again, this is all school/region specific.

It is definitely harder to get in from NOVA than from the Tidewater or Bristol areas, no doubt about it.

Your DC's competition for UVA (and most schools) is not those folks, but the other DCs in their HS.

But you do not need all As, and 1600 SAT to get in.

My DC is a first year at CAS. They had 4.3 wGPA (with 3 Bs) at their FCPS high school, 1500 SAT, 5 years of foreign language (3 in one including middle school + 2 of another, no AP), "only" APES for science, "only" Calc AB and Stats for math, AP Lang, and 8 APs in social sciences, and average ECs, no awards.

And we are Asian (with an Asian name, so no hiding it).

I post this to give hope to those with DCs who have "blemished" credentials. Your DC can make it. But it is definitely not guaranteed at all. DC got in last year. Would DC get in this year? Who knows? That's the mystery/frustration of this process.

Glad we're done with this.

Good luck to y'all.

Anonymous wrote:UVA is not the be all, end all. Hell my kid had the stats two years ago but was waitlisted. Loving his OOS flagship. Couldn't imagine attending anywhere else. Plus they whopped the Cavs butt in football on national TV this year.

Of course it’s not but a lot of us are only able to do instate for our kids. OOS is not an option.

Anonymous wrote:We clarified that this means they expect AP or DE in every subject including world language and they said yes.

But I basically when I asked the definition of “rigorous” since most schools have more AP options than a student could humanly take, they said it’s whatever box the counselor checks. And your counselor says you took “most rigorous” that’s the most important thing ?

They would not give any direct answers and it was pretty unhelpful. Just keep repeating “holistic blah blah blah.”

I haven't looked at the many pages of responses, so apologies if I'm repeating. A few years ago, when my oldest was a HS senior I asked our HS counselor what she looked for in checking the box and she gave me a pretty specific answer. (She seemed reluctant, but I pressed... I wouldn't expect all counselors to be so forthcoming, though I'm not certain of why not.) I won't repeat the details here because it is clear that each school has a different approach (some HSs limit the # of APs any kid can take, etc.) so her specific list won't translate. But I was interested to know that she had quite a specific checklist in her mind that, indeed, expected APs in all of the 5 core subjects. I inquired about math specifically and she said (again, this is HS-specific) that if a kid completed BC calc by senior year, she checked the box (this was relevant for us because some kids go on to take more advanced courses, but apparently she doesn't look at that when checking the box). She left a little wiggle room for a social studies vs science track. Specifically, she named both AP history (specific courses) and AP sciences (choice between taking APs in the big 3 core sciences) and then looked for 'more' APs along one track or the other. But that was essentially the only 'choice' she noted.

Intellectually curious kids chomp at the bit to take the hard courses—they love it. Those are the kids these schools want and those are who they get(for unhooked at least).

The kids who chomp at the bit to take the hardest courses are the boring grinds, and schools use “holistic admissions” exactly in order to limit the number of these kids they accept.

Intellectually curious kids are more often interested in one or two subjects, they don’t want to have to endure “hardest courses in all five” - and many correctly regard FL as a big waste of time and effort.

UVA is not the be all, end all. Hell my kid had the stats two years ago but was waitlisted. Loving his OOS flagship. Couldn't imagine attending anywhere else. Plus they whopped the Cavs butt in football on national TV this year.

I agree to model is outdated. My son made it to Spanish 4 in 10th grade.


This year he’s taking Physics C, MV Cal, AP Research. He’s only taking Honors English one of the easier AP SS.

If that’s not rigorous enough for some schools oh well. I know he’ll be well prepared for his major in engineering and that’s most important to us.

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Anonymous wrote:Why is foreign language required but advanced music or art is not?

More likely to continue music and art after high school than school foreign language.

Ummm no. No one does art or music. Everyone needs another language.

Ok, I’ve posted twice now about how my daughter who is at UVA stopped French after four years.
She also took drama each year of HS. That being said took APs in all her other classes, went past BC Calc, and scored above a 1500 on her SAT.

was she hooked? from a less populated county? a legacy when legacy counted?

None of the above. UMC white female from a NOVA HS.

Anonymous wrote:They want four years in HS, not just four years. I posted above about my daughter (a senior) taking AP French. This is her fifth year of language and she is only taking it because UVA wouldn’t count her first year which was taken in 8th grade.

To the PP who says colleges get to set their criteria, yes, that’s true. But this rigid foreign language criteria for a public flagship versus a private school is frustrating.

My daughter took four years, starting in 8th grade. Finished after junior year. And somehow UVA still accepted her.

Anonymous wrote:DS chose Spanish 5 vs AP Spanish. Hope that works!

+1. With lots of other rigorous APs. We shall see.

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Then find a college that is a better fit for you outside T20. You don’t make the rules

Yeah, but I can still have an opinion as to whether the requirement is dumb or not.

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Anonymous wrote:They want four years in HS, not just four years. I posted above about my daughter (a senior) taking AP French. This is her fifth year of language and she is only taking it because UVA wouldn’t count her first year which was taken in 8th grade.

To the PP who says colleges get to set their criteria, yes, that’s true. But this rigid foreign language criteria for a public flagship versus a private school is frustrating.

But UVA has to set bright lines. It is a state school with a small (compared to privates) admissions office. As explained above, UVA wants to see those kids who can tough it out even in a course they don't like and still get an A because that demonstrates a love of learning or grit. Those are the students who will succeed at UVA. Also UVA sees itself as training citizens of the world (like Jefferson) who will increasingly need to communicate in many languages in order to succeed in a future business and social world dominated less by English (hint!! Take Chinese! now! Get fluent!)

+1. To the point about UVA needing to set firm guidelines because it us a public school with relatively fewer dollars spent on atteacting and selecting students, note that UVA received almost 60,000 applicatioms last year for only 4,400 seats. It takes money to process that many applications so priorities must be set. All of the top flagship publics have rules, guidelines, cut-offs, etc to help them balance out in-state from OOS, URM (yes they are still doing that to get around the scotus decision), full freight vs scholarship, whatever Asian-American goals/limits it wants to reach, and so in, so that the University can arrive at 4,400 students fitting all of its goals. Not an easy task.

But this isn’t a firm line. UVA takes tons of kids OOS and from urban and rural Virginia without four years of language in high school/AP language. It’s only a few high schools in NOVA where kids have to meet this standard.

Thats not true and you know it. Plenty of examples on this forum and in our school.

I’m not sure what you think I’m wrong about. Our OOS high school only offers 3 years of language, and kids get into UVA. Maybe you think I’m wrong that there’s a higher standard for students from better-resourced high schools? Either way, the PP who said UVA has a “bright line” on this question is wrong.

If your high school truly offers only 3 years of all languages and kids get into UVA then these kids are hooked, in ways you may not be aware of . ( or have super excelled in Stem related courses in high school and have explained that in the essay)

DP. Not sure what you mean by this. You can’t judge kids by what’s not available. My kid’s VA high school can’t find French teachers so at the moment it stops at French 3. We have AP Spanish, but it’s not fair to penalize kids who picked the wrong language in 8th grade.

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is taking AP French this year just because UVA wants four years of language in high school. She hates French and had other classes she wanted to take but didn’t want to give up the post of UVA. Very frustrating.

It is frustrating. My daughter stuck with French even though there were other classses she would have much rather taken. It’s dumb that they require kids to waste their time with something so useless, when there are now a million other (rigorous) courses they could choose that would benefit and interest them more.

You’re missing the point which is UVA decides what matters most for their community, not you. If you think their requirements and the subjects they value are useless you should seek a different college that is a better fit.

Yeah, but requiring four years of a FL seems to be universal among all top colleges, not just UVA. And yes, it’s outdated and dumb.

Then find a college that is a better fit for you outside T20. You don’t make the rules