Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weaponized incompetence. He knows you're going to do it.

She didn’t do anything, except come onto an anonymous message board to complain that he completed a task (albeit imperfectly) and pat herself on the back for completing the same task perfectly herself (you know, in her own mind only).

Most of us can read an infer that this is just one example- and those of us with similar DHs know the score. In my case it wouldn’t just be pulling this kind of stunt with the birthday party (my exDH probably would have blown it off altogether). It would also be:
- never cooking or grocery shopping
- never doing any school paperwork
- never paying any bills or doing anything financial; actively refuse to do financial planning
- no coordination of home repairs or yard work
- no cleaning except for very discrete tasks when asked by me
- no attention to regular healthcare needs for kids
- no attention to teaching kids basic skills (shoe tying etc)
- no communication/coordination with caregivers and schools
- no childcare except when specifically booked by me (as if they were a babysitter) or if there was a “fun” activity they wanted to do
- not earning more than 50% of the household income (in case you wondered if being a high earner excused this)

Holy sh!t. That’s just terrible and I am sure not exaggerated in the least. I can only assume that he dropped dead almost immediately after you divorced him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out.

First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weaponized incompetence. He knows you're going to do it.

She didn’t do anything, except come onto an anonymous message board to complain that he completed a task (albeit imperfectly) and pat herself on the back for completing the same task perfectly herself (you know, in her own mind only).

Most of us can read an infer that this is just one example- and those of us with similar DHs know the score. In my case it wouldn’t just be pulling this kind of stunt with the birthday party (my exDH probably would have blown it off altogether). It would also be:
- never cooking or grocery shopping
- never doing any school paperwork
- never paying any bills or doing anything financial; actively refuse to do financial planning
- no coordination of home repairs or yard work
- no cleaning except for very discrete tasks when asked by me
- no attention to regular healthcare needs for kids
- no attention to teaching kids basic skills (shoe tying etc)
- no communication/coordination with caregivers and schools
- no childcare except when specifically booked by me (as if they were a babysitter) or if there was a “fun” activity they wanted to do
- not earning more than 50% of the household income (in case you wondered if being a high earner excused this)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

Anonymous wrote:"I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand."

You know he has it and takes meds. Yet you choose not to understand. By understand I don't mean tolerate. It is frustrating and spouses frequently insist that their ADHD family members work harder at EF and establish better safety rails for themselves so they make fewer administrative mistakes. You are right to do that.

But to assume he bears ill will or is being "intentional" in his mistakes goes beyond not understanding how he is impacted by his disability. You are looking for a character flaw that you can weaponize so you don't feel bad dumping him for having a disability.

It isn't 'intentional' -- ironically, following through on intentions is literally the hard part. There is no benefit to him. The toll these administrative mistake stake on a person with ADHD is harsh and real. To cope, some people have to learn to recognize that the consequences aren't dire and learn to roll with it. If it is dire to you, that too can be very frustrating, because it seems he doesn't care, but the alternative for him is depression and crippling anxiety.

The PPs are right that he needs to focus on creating better EF supports for himself at home so he can pull his weight. He can pull his weight, and needs to do the work to get there. You can point out to him that he has failed to work on EF supports at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weaponized incompetence. He knows you're going to do it.

She didn’t do anything, except come onto an anonymous message board to complain that he completed a task (albeit imperfectly) and pat herself on the back for completing the same task perfectly herself (you know, in her own mind only).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve known a LOT of men like this, including my H, my brother, and a couple ex-boyfriends.

I really think it all comes down to a lack of consequences. Someone is always there to save them, whether it’s a mom, girlfriend, or wife.

My H never did domestic work and I paid 75% of the bills, despite making half what he did. One day I decided if I had to go another day living like that, I’d run my car off a bridge. So I stopped. Stopped cooking, cleaning, covering his half of bills.

He tried calling my bluff by pulling the same “I don’t have money for bills this month, sorry”. So I put all his gym equipment up for sale on FB and sold it all by the time he got home from work. Told him I’d keep selling his stuff if he can’t pay his share. When he protested I packed my stuff up and had my attorney draw up a custody arrangement. Also made a Google Sheets adding up the amount of free time and extra money I’d have if I moved out (it was a lot) and sent it to him.

Money hasn’t been an issue since. He actually got a much higher paying job. I haven’t cleaned the house in over a year - he does it all. He cooks 4-5 nights a week.

It sucks, but you gotta treat these men the same way a boss would treat them. If they can’t fulfill their job, they don’t get to stay there anymore.

That being said, I had to hit my own rock bottom. I really couldn’t stand the idea of 40 more years of that life. I have zero doubt I would have died if I had to spend my life caring for an adult man.

I am amazed this actually worked, congratulations. The problem is that most of these men also get poisonously angry when confronted. Sounds like your DH actually wanted to change.

It didn’t work. That post is 100% troll.

Anonymous wrote:Weaponized incompetence. He knows you're going to do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in charge of 95%+ of the household admin and am the main breadwinner. I am constantly resentful bc I am always either working, doing admin or at best telling dh to do things bc he does not initiate the need to do or buy anything that needs to be bought or happen. He took ds to an 8th birthday party today while I took other dc on overnight for travel sport. I reminded him multiple times about party and that he would need a gift; he said he would get the gift. ds tells me this evening that they were late to the party bc dh overslept and had no gift so gave kid money in envelope.
yes dh has adhd. yes is on meds.
I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand.

I think by calling it a mentality you're acting like it's something people are CHOOSING to do. I have a friend who is always late. ALWAYS. I've left her behind for things before and we just don't wait for her anymore, but it's one of her only faults and she says she can't help it, it's just the way her brain works, and I've decided to accept it. She actually does care very much about letting people down but there is something that always convinces her that she has time for X, Y, and Z before leaving the house and she just doesn't but she cannot learn that. One time she said she was sorry she was late but she had to vacuum before she came to dinner. I said oh did something spill? No, she just needed to vacuum.

So it's possible your husband might just be incapable of remembering and planning things. Or it's possible that he's a complete jerk and he's trying to weaponize his incompetence so that he doesn't have to do anything. My husband isn't anything like that but he also likes to have things in the actual calendar because he doesn't have the virtual calendar in his head that I do, which is fine.

your friend chooses to be late because she has learned that you tolerate it. ask her if she’s late to jury duty, work, daycare pickup …