Anonymous
09/28/2024 21:28
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
The applicant's life experience discussed in an essay is a fair basis for admission per the SFFA opinion even if that experience is the result of the applicant's race.
The National Recognition Program angle may need to be litigated, though in general, such students may have high academic stats that provide sufficient basis for admission.
The national recognition itself is a result of some ascribed academic "merit" to standardized test scores, so no issue there.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 21:23
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
You don't get it.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 21:12
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
The applicant's life experience discussed in an essay is a fair basis for admission per the SFFA opinion even if that experience is the result of the applicant's race.
The National Recognition Program angle may need to be litigated, though in general, such students may have high academic stats that provide sufficient basis for admission.
For an individual, yes, but we are talking aggregates: preferences for URMs mentioning hardship versus non-URMs, in the aggregate, will not stand. As for the National Recognition Program, it is extremely easy to compare these kids to non-URM commended scholars, with similar or even higher scores, who somehow did not have “sufficient basis for admission” We are talking only an hour of data mining to find that out…
I'm referring to more like 4.0/1550/NMF + National Recognition. They will not be so numerous as to draw cries of racism, but they are out there (I know at least 3 with this type of profile).
Anonymous
09/28/2024 21:07
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
The applicant's life experience discussed in an essay is a fair basis for admission per the SFFA opinion even if that experience is the result of the applicant's race.
The National Recognition Program angle may need to be litigated, though in general, such students may have high academic stats that provide sufficient basis for admission.
For an individual, yes, but we are talking aggregates: preferences for URMs mentioning hardship versus non-URMs, in the aggregate, will not stand. As for the National Recognition Program, it is extremely easy to compare these kids to non-URM commended scholars, with similar or even higher scores, who somehow did not have “sufficient basis for admission” We are talking only an hour of data mining to find that out…
Anonymous
09/28/2024 21:04
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
The applicant's life experience discussed in an essay is a fair basis for admission per the SFFA opinion even if that experience is the result of the applicant's race.
The National Recognition Program angle may need to be litigated, though in general, such students may have high academic stats that provide sufficient basis for admission.
National Recognition Program applicants who also have high SATs and grades comparable to other accepted applicants are not going to be very numerous and their admission would be difficult to complain about from a racism standpoint.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:59
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
The applicant's life experience discussed in an essay is a fair basis for admission per the SFFA opinion even if that experience is the result of the applicant's race.
The National Recognition Program angle may need to be litigated, though in general, such students may have high academic stats that provide sufficient basis for admission.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:48
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Huh? Race mentioned in essay. This is not rocket science, folks. Keyword search terms — no problem finding these.
When URM status is mentioned in essay or otherwise disclosed (Hispanic Recognition Scholar), admit rate = whatever it is. Statistically significant, sure. To a p level of .01? Maybe. If so, essays, in the aggregate, are indeed a smoking gun…
Duh.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:34
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
The point is that any applicant of any race/ethnicity can write an essay within the newly established SCOTUS framework. If the essay help a kid get accepted, URM or otherwise, great. Contrary to what some people hope, the essay won't be a smoking gun or anything. In addition, some of the top colleges have a specific supplemental essay on diversity.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:23
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you can replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
The reference was to admission officers and their decision-making, not applicants.
In the SFFA case, the admissions officers were able to say they exercised racial preferences but did so within the bounds of the law.
In the upcoming cases, the admissions officers are going to have to explain specific decisions they made and more documentation is better than less documentation in supporting their decisions.
I would never recommend having an empty file with just the application and a yes/no decision unless the objective criteria clearly warrant it.
Especially if I am going to make extraordinary efforts to try and maintain diversity without reference to race.
The lawsuit will go into the intent behind sudden changes in essay questions at these schools. The lawsuit will delve into the training the admissions officers received. The lawsuit will depose individual admissions officers to see how they applied the training they received. Then the economists will statistically model the applicant pool and the admit pool and make some determinations.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:18
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Do you have any reason to believe that applicants of black and hispanic kids would have significantly stronger essays that asian and white kids?
If not then we can apply statistical models and ferret out racism.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 20:16
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you can replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
Eliminating state sanctioned racial discrimination is a watershed moment. You may not realize that the course of the river has changed but it is no longer acceptable to discriminate against hard working asian kids because they are more successful. Asian kids may one day be able to approach college applications without worrying about appearing "too asian"
And when the colleges actually surrender their race fetish, we will see racial distributions at the most selective schools start to resemble the racial distribution of standardized tests.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 15:59
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you can replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
The reference was to admission officers and their decision-making, not applicants.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 15:35
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
You can't police the essays...
Anonymous
09/28/2024 15:34
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you **can't** replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.
Anonymous
09/28/2024 15:33
Subject: Dartmouth College Class of 2028: White, Asian, Black and Native American Numbers FELL. Hispanic or Latinx ROSE
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When that happens, IMO, it means they leaned heavily on the National Merit Hispanic Recognition Program designation in apps.
Which seems .. lazy?
Yes but it works
Works how? Plenty of kids claim to be Hispanic who are three generations away from speaking anything but English. It’s not making Dartmouth more diverse on anything but paper.
Wouldn't that be illegal? They aren't supposed to use race.
The Supreme Court has never ruled that consideration of race is "illegal" or otherwise impermissible.
In fact, the SFFA majority opinion noted that race-based admissions programs are okay "within the confines of narrow restrictions."
They found that the Harvard and UNC programs did not fall within those confines. That's it.
pretty sure they said that racial preferences are illegal.
Yeah, you clearly didn't read the majority opinion.
Just read section 6 of the opinion.
Racial preferences are illegal.
You can talk about how you overcame racism or how you assumed a leadership role in your ethnic community but the school cannot express a preference for a his[panic kid that assumed a leadership role in their community over an asian kid that did the same thing in their community. They cannot prefer one race over another.
What you and the Supreme Court described as permissible is still a racial preference.
No, it's not.
If you can replace the word hispanic with the word asian or white with exactly the same effect then it is not a racial preference.
If the story about how a hispanic kid assumed a leadership role in in their community is given more value than a similar story about how a white kid assumed a leadership role in their community, then it's a racial preference.
If a hispanic student's story about how they overcame racism is given more weight than a similar story by an asian about how they overcame racism, then it's racial preference.
How are you going to even prove this? They will judge the applicants on the strength of their essays.
Everything is digital now. Far easier to do now than it ever was….
DP. Not everything is written. And not everything is written digitally, specifically due to the possibility of electronic discovery. Times are changing indeed.
Everything is written digitally: they are called college essays.
College essays have been written for hundreds of years.
You can "police" those as some wannabe lawyers on DCUM suggest. Furthermore, the mentioning of race ( for anyone and everyone, not just URMs) is allowed within certain parameters.
Affirmative action is banned. It was never going to be a watershed moment for Asian American students. There are only so many qualified for the top schools outside of the California publics.
Let's move on.