Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The next generation of parents are extremely self-centered and all about their own “wellness” and “family time” — hoping they figure this out fast because they are harming their communities, which they also somehow miss.
Aimed at women most likely.
PP here - where I really see this is when the father is taking on more childcare responsibilities.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.
Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.
Based on what I've heard/seen in multiple volunteer run organizations, the upside is when your friends volunteer with you. Then you're hanging out with your friends (and your kids are likely in a pack hanging out also with their friends) and it works. But on the flip side, you may be less likely to invite in other volunteers and people accuse your PTA/leadership team of being cliquey and not friendly so you get fewer volunteers. Catch-22.
This is exactly what I found! Same with helping with class parties.
I largely think most PTA activities are unnecessary and don't add that much to the school experience.
As someone in a non-PTA organization that decided a bunch of fun but not strictly necessary activities should be removed, I'm going to disagree. 4 years ago or so we took out the for-fun-but-not-required things for our families. Yeah, during Covid. Those things were deemed too much work for the reward. Funnily enough, now that those community building things are gone, people seem a lot less loyal to the organization than they used to be. While it's not the only factor, I do think all these little things that are so much of a pain but bring people onto school or together in organizations also bring in (just a few) more volunteers, make people more likely to stick with an organization, build friendships, and make people feel more welcome.
I really hate how because of Covid we made kids' live smaller and worse with fewer opportunities. I know it's a big pain - I'm a big volunteer and I've been the one having to do the grunt work. Maybe it's true that the results aren't worth it. But dang it feels sad.
I don’t think the bolded is true. Most kids I know get tons of enrichment and opportunity and are living in big— even global big— worlds. My daughter has travelled internationally a ton, as have our close friends with kids her age, because the resources we would use for volunteering are being redirected toward our family.
I can put five hours of planning into getting her age appropriate activities in Europe this fall or I can put the same five hours into being told that the best use of my time is making sure the teachers get breakfast served to them, and gift cards, during teacher appreciation week. Which five hours provides more experience for my kid?
This is the attitude we have everywhere. Its not just about your kid!
With due respect. Yes, it is.
Here’s the lesson of COVID: no one cares about your kid other than you. No one cares about your family, or your resources other than you.
School’s want to take and take and take. Volunteer hours. Money. “Support”. But when it’s time for them to give? You’re a monster for asking how your kids IEP will be met without OT and don’t you know school isn’t daycare?!? No one— No one— cared about those kids. No one cares about the hundreds of thousands of women who were forced out of the workforce whose earnings may never recover.
But now? They are coming for those same women’s time and those same women’s money and we’re all supposed to forget they absolutely abandoned those women, and their children, already once before.
See it's funny, I took away a similar lesson but different.
Paid organizations don't care, so people have to look out for each other. Unlike some PPs up-thread, our volunteer-run and not-for-profit stuff did the absolute max during Covid while the government run or paid organizations did not. So we still give our time to the volunteer-run stuff. And yes there are takers, and yes they are annoying, but my kids benefit from the takers kids being there. So we keep doing it.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.
Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.
Based on what I've heard/seen in multiple volunteer run organizations, the upside is when your friends volunteer with you. Then you're hanging out with your friends (and your kids are likely in a pack hanging out also with their friends) and it works. But on the flip side, you may be less likely to invite in other volunteers and people accuse your PTA/leadership team of being cliquey and not friendly so you get fewer volunteers. Catch-22.
This is exactly what I found! Same with helping with class parties.
I largely think most PTA activities are unnecessary and don't add that much to the school experience.
As someone in a non-PTA organization that decided a bunch of fun but not strictly necessary activities should be removed, I'm going to disagree. 4 years ago or so we took out the for-fun-but-not-required things for our families. Yeah, during Covid. Those things were deemed too much work for the reward. Funnily enough, now that those community building things are gone, people seem a lot less loyal to the organization than they used to be. While it's not the only factor, I do think all these little things that are so much of a pain but bring people onto school or together in organizations also bring in (just a few) more volunteers, make people more likely to stick with an organization, build friendships, and make people feel more welcome.
I really hate how because of Covid we made kids' live smaller and worse with fewer opportunities. I know it's a big pain - I'm a big volunteer and I've been the one having to do the grunt work. Maybe it's true that the results aren't worth it. But dang it feels sad.
I don’t think the bolded is true. Most kids I know get tons of enrichment and opportunity and are living in big— even global big— worlds. My daughter has travelled internationally a ton, as have our close friends with kids her age, because the resources we would use for volunteering are being redirected toward our family.
I can put five hours of planning into getting her age appropriate activities in Europe this fall or I can put the same five hours into being told that the best use of my time is making sure the teachers get breakfast served to them, and gift cards, during teacher appreciation week. Which five hours provides more experience for my kid?
This is the attitude we have everywhere. Its not just about your kid!
With due respect. Yes, it is.
Here’s the lesson of COVID: no one cares about your kid other than you. No one cares about your family, or your resources other than you.
School’s want to take and take and take. Volunteer hours. Money. “Support”. But when it’s time for them to give? You’re a monster for asking how your kids IEP will be met without OT and don’t you know school isn’t daycare?!? No one— No one— cared about those kids. No one cares about the hundreds of thousands of women who were forced out of the workforce whose earnings may never recover.
But now? They are coming for those same women’s time and those same women’s money and we’re all supposed to forget they absolutely abandoned those women, and their children, already once before.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.
Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.
Based on what I've heard/seen in multiple volunteer run organizations, the upside is when your friends volunteer with you. Then you're hanging out with your friends (and your kids are likely in a pack hanging out also with their friends) and it works. But on the flip side, you may be less likely to invite in other volunteers and people accuse your PTA/leadership team of being cliquey and not friendly so you get fewer volunteers. Catch-22.
This is exactly what I found! Same with helping with class parties.
I largely think most PTA activities are unnecessary and don't add that much to the school experience.
As someone in a non-PTA organization that decided a bunch of fun but not strictly necessary activities should be removed, I'm going to disagree. 4 years ago or so we took out the for-fun-but-not-required things for our families. Yeah, during Covid. Those things were deemed too much work for the reward. Funnily enough, now that those community building things are gone, people seem a lot less loyal to the organization than they used to be. While it's not the only factor, I do think all these little things that are so much of a pain but bring people onto school or together in organizations also bring in (just a few) more volunteers, make people more likely to stick with an organization, build friendships, and make people feel more welcome.
I really hate how because of Covid we made kids' live smaller and worse with fewer opportunities. I know it's a big pain - I'm a big volunteer and I've been the one having to do the grunt work. Maybe it's true that the results aren't worth it. But dang it feels sad.
I don’t think the bolded is true. Most kids I know get tons of enrichment and opportunity and are living in big— even global big— worlds. My daughter has travelled internationally a ton, as have our close friends with kids her age, because the resources we would use for volunteering are being redirected toward our family.
I can put five hours of planning into getting her age appropriate activities in Europe this fall or I can put the same five hours into being told that the best use of my time is making sure the teachers get breakfast served to them, and gift cards, during teacher appreciation week. Which five hours provides more experience for my kid?
This is the attitude we have everywhere. Its not just about your kid!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.
This is utterly false. 100% of the volunteer coaches for boys sports in my town are men. The vast majority of coaches in girl sports are men. At games and youth tournaments it is relatively rare to see a female coach. Nearly all of the referees in all the sports I am aware of are male. I have never seen a female youth football coach. All of the dads I know are more involved with their kids athletic activities than the moms are.
I think the statement you are making says more about your husband and your marriage than it does about our area.
to the previous poster, You actually proved her point.
Plus, athletics involves much more unseen labor than just coaching.
+1 to that.
Though I think the idea that doing free labor is somehow less than paid labor is terrible. Yes, both genders should be willing to do it, but there's value in the gift economy and not just for stuff and not just for the receiver.
Maybe Covid accelerated the volunteering crisis, but the idea that people shouldn't ever do any labor for free started it.
There is when it’s a gift. Not when it’s an obligation, and not when those “gifts” are taken for granted by schools to reduce their own responsibilities. What COVID revealed was that schools didn’t feel any reciprocal responsibility.
That wouldn't explain why extracurriculars and non-school activities are feeling the pinch of lack of volunteers.
I think the organizations which took women’s labor for granted are the ones feeling the pinch. Our swim team has a ton of volunteers— they recognize and reward those volunteers.
Our swim team berates people over the head into volunteering and then takes all volunteers except the "cool" ones for granted. It's why I'm making my kids quit, even though swim is good for them. It's such a miserable experience unless you are on the in crowd.
That is a really disappointing statement from a parent. You are going to withdraw your children from an activity because it’s too much trouble for you? Save some money for their therapy.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.
This is utterly false. 100% of the volunteer coaches for boys sports in my town are men. The vast majority of coaches in girl sports are men. At games and youth tournaments it is relatively rare to see a female coach. Nearly all of the referees in all the sports I am aware of are male. I have never seen a female youth football coach. All of the dads I know are more involved with their kids athletic activities than the moms are.
I think the statement you are making says more about your husband and your marriage than it does about our area.
to the previous poster, You actually proved her point.
Plus, athletics involves much more unseen labor than just coaching.
+1 to that.
Though I think the idea that doing free labor is somehow less than paid labor is terrible. Yes, both genders should be willing to do it, but there's value in the gift economy and not just for stuff and not just for the receiver.
Maybe Covid accelerated the volunteering crisis, but the idea that people shouldn't ever do any labor for free started it.
There is when it’s a gift. Not when it’s an obligation, and not when those “gifts” are taken for granted by schools to reduce their own responsibilities. What COVID revealed was that schools didn’t feel any reciprocal responsibility.
That wouldn't explain why extracurriculars and non-school activities are feeling the pinch of lack of volunteers.
I think the organizations which took women’s labor for granted are the ones feeling the pinch. Our swim team has a ton of volunteers— they recognize and reward those volunteers.
Our swim team berates people over the head into volunteering and then takes all volunteers except the "cool" ones for granted. It's why I'm making my kids quit, even though swim is good for them. It's such a miserable experience unless you are on the in crowd.
That is a really disappointing statement from a parent. You are going to withdraw your children from an activity because it’s too much trouble for you? Save some money for their therapy.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.
This is utterly false. 100% of the volunteer coaches for boys sports in my town are men. The vast majority of coaches in girl sports are men. At games and youth tournaments it is relatively rare to see a female coach. Nearly all of the referees in all the sports I am aware of are male. I have never seen a female youth football coach. All of the dads I know are more involved with their kids athletic activities than the moms are.
I think the statement you are making says more about your husband and your marriage than it does about our area.
to the previous poster, You actually proved her point.
Plus, athletics involves much more unseen labor than just coaching.
+1 to that.
Though I think the idea that doing free labor is somehow less than paid labor is terrible. Yes, both genders should be willing to do it, but there's value in the gift economy and not just for stuff and not just for the receiver.
Maybe Covid accelerated the volunteering crisis, but the idea that people shouldn't ever do any labor for free started it.
There is when it’s a gift. Not when it’s an obligation, and not when those “gifts” are taken for granted by schools to reduce their own responsibilities. What COVID revealed was that schools didn’t feel any reciprocal responsibility.
That wouldn't explain why extracurriculars and non-school activities are feeling the pinch of lack of volunteers.
I think the organizations which took women’s labor for granted are the ones feeling the pinch. Our swim team has a ton of volunteers— they recognize and reward those volunteers.
Our swim team berates people over the head into volunteering and then takes all volunteers except the "cool" ones for granted. It's why I'm making my kids quit, even though swim is good for them. It's such a miserable experience unless you are on the in crowd.
That is a really disappointing statement from a parent. You are going to withdraw your children from an activity because it’s too much trouble for you? Save some money for their therapy.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:90% of the child-related volunteer mental/emotional/physical labor is done by moms and the newer generation of moms are not into doing free labor that is being taken for granted and baked in to the school budgets. They no longer need or want that validation.
This is utterly false. 100% of the volunteer coaches for boys sports in my town are men. The vast majority of coaches in girl sports are men. At games and youth tournaments it is relatively rare to see a female coach. Nearly all of the referees in all the sports I am aware of are male. I have never seen a female youth football coach. All of the dads I know are more involved with their kids athletic activities than the moms are.
I think the statement you are making says more about your husband and your marriage than it does about our area.
to the previous poster, You actually proved her point.
Plus, athletics involves much more unseen labor than just coaching.
+1 to that.
Though I think the idea that doing free labor is somehow less than paid labor is terrible. Yes, both genders should be willing to do it, but there's value in the gift economy and not just for stuff and not just for the receiver.
Maybe Covid accelerated the volunteering crisis, but the idea that people shouldn't ever do any labor for free started it.
There is when it’s a gift. Not when it’s an obligation, and not when those “gifts” are taken for granted by schools to reduce their own responsibilities. What COVID revealed was that schools didn’t feel any reciprocal responsibility.
That wouldn't explain why extracurriculars and non-school activities are feeling the pinch of lack of volunteers.
I think the organizations which took women’s labor for granted are the ones feeling the pinch. Our swim team has a ton of volunteers— they recognize and reward those volunteers.
Our swim team berates people over the head into volunteering and then takes all volunteers except the "cool" ones for granted. It's why I'm making my kids quit, even though swim is good for them. It's such a miserable experience unless you are on the in crowd.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.
Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.
Based on what I've heard/seen in multiple volunteer run organizations, the upside is when your friends volunteer with you. Then you're hanging out with your friends (and your kids are likely in a pack hanging out also with their friends) and it works. But on the flip side, you may be less likely to invite in other volunteers and people accuse your PTA/leadership team of being cliquey and not friendly so you get fewer volunteers. Catch-22.
This is exactly what I found! Same with helping with class parties.
I largely think most PTA activities are unnecessary and don't add that much to the school experience.
As someone in a non-PTA organization that decided a bunch of fun but not strictly necessary activities should be removed, I'm going to disagree. 4 years ago or so we took out the for-fun-but-not-required things for our families. Yeah, during Covid. Those things were deemed too much work for the reward. Funnily enough, now that those community building things are gone, people seem a lot less loyal to the organization than they used to be. While it's not the only factor, I do think all these little things that are so much of a pain but bring people onto school or together in organizations also bring in (just a few) more volunteers, make people more likely to stick with an organization, build friendships, and make people feel more welcome.
I really hate how because of Covid we made kids' live smaller and worse with fewer opportunities. I know it's a big pain - I'm a big volunteer and I've been the one having to do the grunt work. Maybe it's true that the results aren't worth it. But dang it feels sad.
I don’t think the bolded is true. Most kids I know get tons of enrichment and opportunity and are living in big— even global big— worlds. My daughter has travelled internationally a ton, as have our close friends with kids her age, because the resources we would use for volunteering are being redirected toward our family.
I can put five hours of planning into getting her age appropriate activities in Europe this fall or I can put the same five hours into being told that the best use of my time is making sure the teachers get breakfast served to them, and gift cards, during teacher appreciation week. Which five hours provides more experience for my kid?
This is the attitude we have everywhere. Its not just about your kid!
First quoted PP here, and THIS! If nobody cares about the neighborhood Halloween parade (or whatever) any more, your kid is fine, but some kid out there is missing out. Teacher Appreciation Week is whatever, but it's the volunteering for the fun fairs and the neighborhood bike parades and the VBSes that someone mentioned upthread I'm talking about.
Even if your kid is now traveling to Europe instead of biking to the pool on the 4th of July, they are missing out on the chance to connect with someone in the neighborhood they might not have. The most meaningful relationships are local not global, so I'd argue they truly are missing something important there. You are welcome to disagree.
Anonymous wrote:The next generation of parents are extremely self-centered and all about their own “wellness” and “family time” — hoping they figure this out fast because they are harming their communities, which they also somehow miss.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are the student participant numbers down too or just the parent volunteer numbers? Some families may have decided that life was more enjoyable when their kids weren't overbooked with activities. But, that would mean both parent and student numbers would be down.
I do think in some areas people are fleeing to more expensive pay-to-participate opportunties (ex: club sports over rec, classes at studios or gyms over other kinds of activities). But not everything.
Lots of people tried club sports when other local options shut down. Travel basketball was the first activity that my kids had to return. Practices were outdoors and games were non-existant, but the club was doing everything the could to get the kids doing something
+1
Club sports returned ( in some capacity ) much much sooner than schools, rec leagues and rec activities etc. 2 of my 3 kids moved to club sports during COVID and never returned to community rec. Many people moved to these private activities and never returned.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Covid exposed even more inequity but also slowed it all down and allowed people to focus inward and not on their community. I see this in the PTA. We have 40-50 parents who volunteer out of a school of 400 families and most of these parents can just put their kid into a paid activity or go to a fun paid festival on weekends instead of setting up for a festival on school grounds. Free to all students and benefitting all the families that cant volunteer or financially contribute due to multiple jobs, many kids etc. We are all burned out now but not many new families are stepping up.
Can you really blame those people for not wanting to burn themselves out for others who can’t or won’t pitch but want to enjoy the fruits of someone else’s labor? People felt taken advantage of in these largely thankless roles. There wasn’t much upside for people who would like to enjoy their weekends with their families too.