It’s not Covid. If anything, Covid gave parents MORE opportunity to parent, not less. It’s laziness. The same reason parents can be bothered to cook dinners, pack a lunch, or make their kid breakfast. Many parents want to do as little as possible in regards to interacting and actually raising their children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This rising 4th grade class is an absolute disaster. They missed fundamental social and behavioral development due to the pandemic and having spent their kindergarten year on computers and 1st grade in masks, at least around here. I’m making no statement about the decisions made at that time but this group of kids is absolutely stunted in their development and their behavior reflect that.

My parents never went to pre-school or kindergarten and yet were raised with firm boundaries. Stop blaming this on lack of socialization.

No, I agree with the PP you replied to. It’s different to not go to preschool or kindergarten but to be getting attention from parents, responsibilities, and to be amidst neighbors and a community every day. That in itself creates socialization and boundaries- socialization isn’t just “having playdates”.

My dad is quite elderly and started school in 1st grade because kindergarten was not yet compulsory. He was fine, but he was also raised on a block with neighbors who were around all day, clear expectations from adults, a parent who took care of him during the day (vs being in another room on a computer), outdoor time, and zero screens.

My rising 4th grader has a bunch of classmates whose parents either were working in another room 10 hours/day while they were left literally and figuratively to their own devices, or classmates whose parents were supposedly present but sitting in a backyard getting drunk by a firepit with their “pod” while the kids interacted with zero outsiders, strangers or authority figures. I hope it will improve over time but as I see them now, these kids are not going to get better- only more disregulated and feral.

This right here is the problem. Parents didn’t parent during the pandemic and those were crucial development years for kids around 9-11 years old now. There is no fixing it, kids brains are wired at this point.

Kids' brains are not wired beyond repair in 4th grade, geez. My older kid is this age and yeah, it was a really rough year, but he's certainly learning. Third grade was the year we really started to set higher standards for cleaning up after himself, and we've had to set very specific and routine screen time limits because his younger sibling is a little too obsessed. We also really have to repeat and reinforce basic manners like holding the door for others, not talking while your mouth is full, looking at someone when you're talking to them, etc. But I don't blame covid, I think this stuff isn't actually natural, it's taught and we need to teach it.

Agree. In my experience it requires a lot of repetition and these kind of posts make me worried, because my son is definitely not perfect yet though I would hope he wouldn't do the things mentioned. He does take his plate and put it in the dishwasher after all meals but still requires reminders and I'm not certain he would remember at someone else's house when he is out of routine. In my experience also some kids are easier to teach these things than others. My older son has ADHD and the amount of repetition he needs is INTENSE. and insert a little stimulation with friends and it can go quickly out the window. My younger son has been easier to teach these things from the beginning. He is just has a milder temperament and doesn't have the ADHD making it a little tougher for him. My older son will get there, but he is definitely not perfect at people's houses. We prep him every single time and talk through scenarios like this, remind him the answer is OKAY when a parent gives a direction. But I'm sure he's an a-hole sometimes. Mostly parents have said he was great but I'm sure there are moments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This rising 4th grade class is an absolute disaster. They missed fundamental social and behavioral development due to the pandemic and having spent their kindergarten year on computers and 1st grade in masks, at least around here. I’m making no statement about the decisions made at that time but this group of kids is absolutely stunted in their development and their behavior reflect that.

My parents never went to pre-school or kindergarten and yet were raised with firm boundaries. Stop blaming this on lack of socialization.

No, I agree with the PP you replied to. It’s different to not go to preschool or kindergarten but to be getting attention from parents, responsibilities, and to be amidst neighbors and a community every day. That in itself creates socialization and boundaries- socialization isn’t just “having playdates”.

My dad is quite elderly and started school in 1st grade because kindergarten was not yet compulsory. He was fine, but he was also raised on a block with neighbors who were around all day, clear expectations from adults, a parent who took care of him during the day (vs being in another room on a computer), outdoor time, and zero screens.

My rising 4th grader has a bunch of classmates whose parents either were working in another room 10 hours/day while they were left literally and figuratively to their own devices, or classmates whose parents were supposedly present but sitting in a backyard getting drunk by a firepit with their “pod” while the kids interacted with zero outsiders, strangers or authority figures. I hope it will improve over time but as I see them now, these kids are not going to get better- only more disregulated and feral.

This right here is the problem. Parents didn’t parent during the pandemic and those were crucial development years for kids around 9-11 years old now. There is no fixing it, kids brains are wired at this point.

Kids' brains are not wired beyond repair in 4th grade, geez. My older kid is this age and yeah, it was a really rough year, but he's certainly learning. Third grade was the year we really started to set higher standards for cleaning up after himself, and we've had to set very specific and routine screen time limits because his younger sibling is a little too obsessed. We also really have to repeat and reinforce basic manners like holding the door for others, not talking while your mouth is full, looking at someone when you're talking to them, etc. But I don't blame covid, I think this stuff isn't actually natural, it's taught and we need to teach it.

Anonymous wrote:I have seen atrocious behavior at our cub scout den and pack meetings, with parents on the sidelines either ignoring or seemingly amused by it. Like, straight up lord of the flies behavior. As a member of the leadership we are constantly trying to figure out what to do about it, because they just flat out don’t listen to us and it is harder when their parents are right there and not insisting they change their behavior or backing us up.

You need to have a parents only meeting and tell them the expectations or write it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This rising 4th grade class is an absolute disaster. They missed fundamental social and behavioral development due to the pandemic and having spent their kindergarten year on computers and 1st grade in masks, at least around here. I’m making no statement about the decisions made at that time but this group of kids is absolutely stunted in their development and their behavior reflect that.

My parents never went to pre-school or kindergarten and yet were raised with firm boundaries. Stop blaming this on lack of socialization.

No, I agree with the PP you replied to. It’s different to not go to preschool or kindergarten but to be getting attention from parents, responsibilities, and to be amidst neighbors and a community every day. That in itself creates socialization and boundaries- socialization isn’t just “having playdates”.

My dad is quite elderly and started school in 1st grade because kindergarten was not yet compulsory. He was fine, but he was also raised on a block with neighbors who were around all day, clear expectations from adults, a parent who took care of him during the day (vs being in another room on a computer), outdoor time, and zero screens.

My rising 4th grader has a bunch of classmates whose parents either were working in another room 10 hours/day while they were left literally and figuratively to their own devices, or classmates whose parents were supposedly present but sitting in a backyard getting drunk by a firepit with their “pod” while the kids interacted with zero outsiders, strangers or authority figures. I hope it will improve over time but as I see them now, these kids are not going to get better- only more disregulated and feral.

This right here is the problem. Parents didn’t parent during the pandemic and those were crucial development years for kids around 9-11 years old now. There is no fixing it, kids brains are wired at this point.

If I can overcome a raging anxiety disorder is my 30s, kids can always still learn. Stop promoting this nonsense.

And parents, quit being the cruise director every weekend and teach your kids chores. It helps!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

yes it absolutely does make sense. the school closure and slow return to normal life changed school and parenting practices for a lot longer than a few months.

Continuing to blame that one year takes away any agency to right the ship. So just saying “oh well this generation is cooked because that year of school that was disrupted” is basically everyone throwing their hands up as if there’s just nothing else to be done anymore!

DP. An explanation isn't an excuse. I don't think "their brains are set" as a PP posted but if this particular cohort is uniquely worse than previous 10 year olds or future 10 year olds, that's valuable information. Over time, these kids will learn but it might take longer.

Anonymous wrote:My 10yo is rising 6th too. He is not like this.

And while I do believe he's a mature kid, a lot of this is parenting. We have pretty high expectations when it comes to basic manners and responsibilities.

My 10yo is rising 6th too. He is not like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

yes it absolutely does make sense. the school closure and slow return to normal life changed school and parenting practices for a lot longer than a few months.

Continuing to blame that one year takes away any agency to right the ship. So just saying “oh well this generation is cooked because that year of school that was disrupted” is basically everyone throwing their hands up as if there’s just nothing else to be done anymore!

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

yes it absolutely does make sense. the school closure and slow return to normal life changed school and parenting practices for a lot longer than a few months.

Anonymous wrote:School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

Okay.

School was closed for 3 months in the 2019-2020 school year, kids were phased in for hybrid learning fall 2020, then paused for a surge, then back in spring 2021 and full time ever since. The kids this age have spent the majority of their elementary years IN SCHOOL, it does not make sense to attribute behaviors, etc to a time period of under one calendar year of online learning that was 4 years ago. It really does not. This is a parenting, lack of community, screens and societal norms issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This rising 4th grade class is an absolute disaster. They missed fundamental social and behavioral development due to the pandemic and having spent their kindergarten year on computers and 1st grade in masks, at least around here. I’m making no statement about the decisions made at that time but this group of kids is absolutely stunted in their development and their behavior reflect that.

My parents never went to pre-school or kindergarten and yet were raised with firm boundaries. Stop blaming this on lack of socialization.

No, I agree with the PP you replied to. It’s different to not go to preschool or kindergarten but to be getting attention from parents, responsibilities, and to be amidst neighbors and a community every day. That in itself creates socialization and boundaries- socialization isn’t just “having playdates”.

My dad is quite elderly and started school in 1st grade because kindergarten was not yet compulsory. He was fine, but he was also raised on a block with neighbors who were around all day, clear expectations from adults, a parent who took care of him during the day (vs being in another room on a computer), outdoor time, and zero screens.

My rising 4th grader has a bunch of classmates whose parents either were working in another room 10 hours/day while they were left literally and figuratively to their own devices, or classmates whose parents were supposedly present but sitting in a backyard getting drunk by a firepit with their “pod” while the kids interacted with zero outsiders, strangers or authority figures. I hope it will improve over time but as I see them now, these kids are not going to get better- only more disregulated and feral.

This right here is the problem. Parents didn’t parent during the pandemic and those were crucial development years for kids around 9-11 years old now. There is no fixing it, kids brains are wired at this point.

Anonymous wrote:OP chiming in to say thanks for the perspective and keep it coming. I should say that the dealing with dishes is less alarming to me than the repeated request for screen time or to watch. Just another 10 minutes of funny or die. I just can’t imagine lobbying my friends parents like that when I was a kid. I was not nice to my friends all the time, which I regret, but I didn’t push it with parents.

I also forgot to mention all the gun play! I am realizing I’ve let my son get too far into this—I guess bc I never expected him and his friends to pretend to shoot each other execution-style and be so….well, I’m not sure what. Writing this thread is having me rethink some of my own choices.

And yes, I will hide the gum when that kid comes over, and if he wants some, he can ask for it!

I have a 5th grade boy. IMO the kid was probably bored at your house.
I’ve told my kids’ bff to always help themselves to snacks at our house. They should throw their trash away. I ask my kids to bring their plates to the sink, not guests. Smart ones will pick up on they hint and do it too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, parenting has gone downhill, a lot. Screens and complacent and/or lazy parents. This sums it up.

My son is 12 now, and was never like this. Several friends were though. I wouldn’t say all, but most. He does have a couple friends with great manners, even when younger.

I grew up as a latch key kid. Watched a ton of tv, so I don't think it's all screens that's the problem. But, my parents were pretty strict when it came to certain behaviors, and I would get slapped if I back talked.

I'm no t advocating for that kind of parenting, obviously. But, it doesn't have to be all "gentle" parenting vs abusive parenting. There can be a middle ground. The hardest part of disciplining is following through with consequences because, let's face it, half the time following through with that consequence is hard for the parent, too.

-gen x parent of teens

Oh man, if you’re equating Tv in the 80s to iPads and the internet now, you’re missing a lot. There is a lot of research out there about how different the impact of cable TV in a den is vs. video games, YouTube, social media, etc.

I say this as someone who watch hours of TV daily as a kid, worked in network tv, and then shifted over to tech. It’s like comparing riding a donkey to airplane travel and saying they’re the same.

Right, plus now the PARENTS are on screens too much also and just can’t be bothered with things like discipline and teaching manners. A lot of parents are largely disengaged from active parenting