Oh yeah, those lacrosse and soccer parents of 3-year-olds! Poor kids by end of high have spent time with ortopods and physical therapy. 99.99% never smell the Olympic Games and the majority only average athletes. At least the others are doctors and engineers. They reached the goal!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

In my DD’s friend group all the Indian girls had known they are going to a medical school since K. They don’t have a choice and it’s non negotiable.

In my neighborhood, there are a number of kids who have been put into sports training since before K. Then there is intensive travel sports later on which comes at great expense. Many don't have a choice and it's non negotiable. When the kids cry and want to quit, the parents say the kids don't really mean it, and that they need to learn to persevere when things get tough. Parents get tense and unpleasant (and sometimes downright verbally abusive) when their kid or their kid's team don't perform well. I won't say that in general white parents are like this, because that is ridiculous, just like it's ridiculous to make generalizations about Asian people. But how is this not also a form of Tiger parenting, but with different priorities? Plenty of folks like this of every race and nationality. There are people who can keep competitiveness healthy, some who are borderline, and some who go way overboard.

+1

The thing is a lot of people cannot resist racism. India is a country of a billion+ people, but the people of that origin in my neighborhood have different priorities than me. So I must generalize. Must criticize. That's just life.

I admired the tiger moms to a certain extent. It has to be in their DNA. Kids wear you down and tune you out. I just don't have it in me to be so pushy. I can't even get the kids to do the dishes or keep their rooms clean.

My kids knew we expected them to do their best in whatever course they took. Other than that we didn't micromanage. TG they were self-motivated. Both going to T10s including H.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

In my DD’s friend group all the Indian girls had known they are going to a medical school since K. They don’t have a choice and it’s non negotiable.

In my neighborhood, there are a number of kids who have been put into sports training since before K. Then there is intensive travel sports later on which comes at great expense. Many don't have a choice and it's non negotiable. When the kids cry and want to quit, the parents say the kids don't really mean it, and that they need to learn to persevere when things get tough. Parents get tense and unpleasant (and sometimes downright verbally abusive) when their kid or their kid's team don't perform well. I won't say that in general white parents are like this, because that is ridiculous, just like it's ridiculous to make generalizations about Asian people. But how is this not also a form of Tiger parenting, but with different priorities? Plenty of folks like this of every race and nationality. There are people who can keep competitiveness healthy, some who are borderline, and some who go way overboard.

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Anonymous wrote:My SIL's sons, two of them, were best friends with a kid who lived across the street. SIL was absolutely vicious about calling the kid's mother a "tiger mom." (And yes, there was an element of racism, SIL is white and the kid's parents are from China.) The kid's parents pushed him very hard academically.

He is now a doctor, finishing up residency. SIL's sons are living in her house, unemployed, playing online video games all night and stealing from her debit card every chance they get. These kids are all mid-30s now.

Shouldn't a doctor be done with residency before their mid-30s? Even a neurosurgeon should be finished around the age of 33.

You win the prize for the most dumbass poster of the day.

Being done with residency in your mid 30s raises zero red flags.

High school = 18
plus 4 years college = 22
plus 4 years med school = 26
plus 3-7 years residency = 29-33

What is happening during those extra years if someone is mid-30s and still finishing residency? Especially if they're not pursuing neurosurgery or another of the rare specialities that takes 7 years after med school.

The new norm is 1-2 gap years after college to make a competitive application as all of that has gone bananas too.

+1. It's common for people to get MAs, or work in a lab right out of undergrad.

And don’t forget the possible PhD that would add 4 years.

Anonymous wrote:

The Tiger Parents are demanding all As. The kid’s peers know when someone has a tiger mom. They don’t smile as much, not as happy and can never hang out after school.

This was the scene at our school with DD’s group of Indian girls I mentioned above, the ones who are going to medical schools.

They cried if they got 92% on a test, were stressed out and hyperventilating during exams.

They never just hung out, they had 0 control over their social schedule and all social activities were carefully orchestrated by the moms.

These moms strategically chose their friends and who they would spend time with - other doctors families or wealthy families. The girls had zero control over their lives.

Anonymous wrote:It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

In my DD’s friend group all the Indian girls had known they are going to a medical school since K. They don’t have a choice and it’s non negotiable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to HYP and still won't forgive my tiger parents. They robbed me of happiness in my formative years that wasn't fully regained until my 40s.

My wife has 4 degrees, including a Ph.D. from Harvard, and I also have 4 degrees, including a joint MBA and JD. Every year, we spend well over $100,000 on our children's education and we can indulge our children in that space (private school, regular study abroad to Mexico and France, private lessons).

The ONLY thing that we insist on is that our children be happy and love what they are doing. GPA, class rank, test scores, shpaaa.

Why? Because I have never come across a great lawyer [or fill in the blank professional] who didn't love being a lawyer [or fill in the blank professional]. I don't understand parents who put so much pressure on children to do well academically that the children start to hate academics. If you hate what you are doing, you won't be good at it.

Considering I have literally never met a lawyer that loves being a lawyer…not sure what you are suggesting. Again…never…sure some may enjoy it many, many more tolerate it for the money…but none would ever say they love it. A bunch of these folks are good to great lawyers.

The world would have far fewer lawyers (likely a good thing) if the standard was living the job.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what the chua rubenfeld cubs are up to now? Last I checked they seemed to have incredible outcomes. I don’t see how she can regret what she did if it they have done so well.

Not only that but the cubs seem close to their parents. I'm sure Chua doesn't regret every aspect of her parenting, but she did go overboard at points and it sounds like she regrets this. They probably would have been equally successful if she hadn't been so nuts. Just because we make mistakes as parents doesn't mean we necessarily ruin our kids, but it's obviously better not to make those mistakes to begin with. I have aspirations for my kid and I will admit it, because I think she is bright and I want her to be resilient. I want to encourage her to do her best with the gifts she has. However, that doesn't mean I don't want her to also be happy and have a good relationship with her dad and me. I definitely don't want to be extreme as Chua was because even she thinks she was too extreme and that it was unnecessary.

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Anonymous wrote:To be fair, kids of my circle's tiger moms seem to be doing well.

I don't doubt it. And when they get married, many of them will choose to spend holidays with their spouse's families who are interested in them as human beings and not just what they can achieve.

Yup! You may think they are happy and don't mind how you raised them. But in reality, many did not enjoy it and appreciate being appreciated for whom they are. There is so much more to a person than their GPA and academic achievements. We care more about what they do with their lives. Are they good, kind, generous people? Do other people want to spend time with them?

Plenty of "normal" parents have kids who won't speak to them or spend holidays with them. Nor does having a good GPA preclude one from doing something with their lives or being a good, kind, generous person that other people want to spend time with. You're thinking in black and white.

Obviously it's not just "black and white". But very few kids just up and not speak to their parents for no real reason. There is always a reason---typically something to do with how parents have treated them up til that point.

It is not okay to push push push your kids without allowing them to develop into overall good humans. There are also plenty of good kids with high GPAs who are genuinely good people---the vast majority of them got there because of self motivation and guidance from parents, NOT pushing pushing pushing from a tiger parent.

I'd prefer my kids learn how to motivate themselves and volunteer because it's a fun and good thing to do, not just because "it's needed for college".
No, we didn't just tell our kids "Cs are okay, just make it thru HS and that's all we expect". Our kids know we expected them to give 110% and work their hardest. But we never sent them to tutoring unless they were actually struggling (and getting a 94% in a class is NOT struggling). We never pushed them to do kumon from age 3+ in hopes they would be advanced in math. Instead we read to them, played with them and encouraged games and activities that built math and critical thinking skills. One kid loved to do math problems, so we gave them that. The other had ADHD and EF issues, and certainly wasn't sitting down to do stupid math problems at age 4.

Know what---the first kid is a math wiz since K. Engineering major in college starting in Calc 3.

other kid ended up a business major, did well in college calc (despite struggling in HS), graduated and landed a great job.

For both kids, the motivation to excel came from them and thru their own hardwork.

You do know that just because you have preconceived judmental notions about everyone and how they should live that they aren't always right? The idea that good grades and good people don't go together is a clear flag to me that you are speaking from some area of insecurity.

The kids getting drunk and doing drugs in high school of which there are a lot and are possibly more "happy" aren't better people and sure they may find more drunks to party with over the years than the dedicated hardworking student but that doesn't make them good. My neighbor was the opposite of a tiger parent - hippie and now one kid lives with her for life and she says she's close to them, the other doesn't talk to anyone in the family, and the other only talks to dad. Typical ending for a family regardless of her belief in having amazing mom skills. She used to tell the school when the kids were failing that it wasnt her job to monitor school. Your type of parent I guess. None of them are successful or married but sure they weren't pushed so that makes them "good" in your book? What exactly makes them super special in your world as being better kinder people than someone who is now a neuro surgeon? What do you have against neuro surgeons? A lot of people that hate disciplined parents come across as overly focused on being anti intellectual or anti society in a way that is just weird for their so called live and let live mentality. Another friend talks about her girls being so motivated on their own and they are both cookie cutter and emaciated. How exactly did they just happen to have the exact same interests as their peers and wear the same outfits while also being so independent as the mom likes to say? What makes them good compared to others for being more focused on being pretty than academic? These families spend inordinate amounts of time focusing on what other people are doing not like them and are basically narcissistic slackers as adults. They are not good and they are not unique. They are just experiencing tall poppy syndrome and coming from a place of insecurity.

Does anyone know what the chua rubenfeld cubs are up to now? Last I checked they seemed to have incredible outcomes. I don’t see how she can regret what she did if it they have done so well.

We tigered on piano lessons but we’re normal on other subjects

DC now 20 yo plays beautifully-and can actually create/compose and improvise - and now takes lessons by choice - seeking out maestros to study with

Academics are lackluster unfortunately. We’re hoping for a lucrative trade so they can support themselves eventually.

Is it a fail? Nope. Seems fairly normal for the age. Which is nice.

OP - do you honestly expect a parent to admit that their parenting style was the cause of their adult childrens’ maladjustment?

Anonymous wrote:I went to HYP and still won't forgive my tiger parents. They robbed me of happiness in my formative years that wasn't fully regained until my 40s.

My wife has 4 degrees, including a Ph.D. from Harvard, and I also have 4 degrees, including a joint MBA and JD. Every year, we spend well over $100,000 on our children's education and we can indulge our children in that space (private school, regular study abroad to Mexico and France, private lessons).

The ONLY thing that we insist on is that our children be happy and love what they are doing. GPA, class rank, test scores, shpaaa.

Why? Because I have never come across a great lawyer [or fill in the blank professional] who didn't love being a lawyer [or fill in the blank professional]. I don't understand parents who put so much pressure on children to do well academically that the children start to hate academics. If you hate what you are doing, you won't be good at it.

DCUM posters = Tiger parents. All of them all the time.